|
(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence Living Together
SONYA: So I’ve been keeping the experience of that ‘ah ha!’
moment at the front of my mind. The seeing that everything is happening on its own accord without ‘me’ actually
deciding anything has been pretty relevant for me lately. I mostly find myself loosening the ‘reigns of control’
when I’m driving and noticing how easy everything is and how much more fun I am having when I let go a bit more. It’s
realising experientially, bit by bit that it’s actually better in every way to step back. I notice that it’s when
‘I’ pop up and start planning/ scheming is when the light/ fun flavour of the world around me dulls. It’s like I’m
seeing the world through different lenses depending on how much ‘in control’ ‘I’ am. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, This is a great discovery and one which stands you in good stead every time you remember “to step back”. Being more and more naïve makes life not only easier but so much more fun! SONYA: Just in time to walk down the aisle this weekend haha. VINEETO: Congratulations to both of you – you both have the tools, the commitment and dedication to live together in peace and harmony. SONYA (to Kuba): I do notice that I have also found it harder to hold on to being serious. There have been a few fleeting moments when ‘I’ have felt I needed to be serious and be upset about something and one look at you grinning at me in playfulness and it all just dissipates. What a waste it would be to be serious and upset when I could enjoy this moment with you. VINEETO: Hehe, it’s such fun to have a happy playmate and you already noticed and
reported that you can have this non-serious enjoyment with other people as well. SONYA: The only time we seem to argue is usually when I’m on my
period but notably a couple weeks ago when I had my period you didn’t notice at all which is a big YAY! Now to keep
it consistent. VINEETO: You might like this section from Richard’s journal, which I found while looking for something else, revelling in the delights of peaceful and harmonious companionship – (Richard’s Journal, Article Two) Enjoy, and then some more. Cheers Vineeto
SONYA: So I’ve constantly been having a few thoughts in the back of my mind that keep popping up so I thought Ill try write them down and try to figure out what’s going on with love for me. I would say largely that love is out of the picture for me. I see to an extent that love is a double edged sword and doesn’t deliver the goods. To me, it’s a heavy, serious, sickly and always made me feel icky. I would say I’ve never fallen balls deep in that kind of “romantic” love. It would “give me the ick” when someone would fall in love with me. So, when I met Kuba and he said he wasn’t interested in love that was ideal. Fast forward into our relationship, loving feelings of course began to develop for the first time. Being 19/20 and still figuring out a lot about life, this new whirl wind of feelings hit like a tonne of bricks. Kuba and I never really fed into the loving feels but they were still somewhat there for me. Of course from it arose insecurities, expectations, control etc. I found that I was losing myself to some extent, I would do things out of love and if it wasn’t reciprocated I got upset. Each time that conflict or bad feelings would come up because of love I dismissed it and brushed it under the rug. I think cause we never really talked about it and I didn’t see the sense of it to a certain extent, it never grew past a certain point but it was still there. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, You really describe well how all the feelings under the umbrella of love are actually being in the way of feeling happy and harmless, of enjoying and appreciating being alive. And then how you looked at them, and more and more discovered that it makes simply no sense to keep having the same expectations resulting in the same disappointment, because of the ‘narrative’ of love. SONYA: I did eventually manage to eliminate most of it when I realised that I was getting upset and keeping love around by relating to Kuba as my ‘boyfriend’ and being in a ‘relationship’ with him. That came with all the expectations of those roles that I put on him and myself and that included the loving feelings. I think after realising that and freeing myself from those expectations and Kuba from my expectations from him I was able to stand on my two feet a bit more and interact Kuba in a fresher way. Less expectations, more fun, light, playful. I thought the job was done. Nope I was reading “A Bit of Vineeto” today when the below clicked for me.
VINEETO: This “feeling ‘connected’” can have different flavours, and only what prevents you from enjoying and appreciating at this moment needs to be looked at this moment. If relying on Kuba makes you insecure then you already know how you can do something about it. It’s a matter of actualising your insight. When you sharpen your affective awareness and tend to each obstacle, each interference preventing you from being gay and naïve, then you will see how the strong “feeling ‘connected’” eventually weakens and disappears altogether. It’s often only a habitual way of being which you can change once you notice it. SONYA: The main crux of love was largely diminished but I am still feeling connected to him.
My feelings are still influenced by how he’s feeling. For a while I could say that I wasn’t in love with Kuba but
there was something still there that was in the way of experiencing him directly without tinted glasses and I think it’s
the feeling of being connected. I am not yet standing on my own two feet and still looking to Kuba to hold my hand. VINEETO: You also said –
You can follow the lead of your “ah ha!” moment SONYA: I’d like to say that I also feel like such a fraud being in very feminine spaces and
not believing in love, it does feel a little lonely at times but I also know I can’t go back to believing in it
after seeing it for what it is. VINEETO: That’s excellent that you know you can’t go back, and the original unfamiliarity will soon pass because you are discovering something better than “believing in love”. You can explore more and more being vitally interested, appreciate, enjoy the other’s company, be fascinated of what he or you are saying next, doing next … and explore more and more intimacy free from the burden of love. And have fun (love is really a very serious business). SONYA: For me it was seeing what someone was like when they were in love, and how someone who
cared for me but wasn’t in love with me behaved. For the latter, we were both still living our own lives but didn’t
fall into the typical ‘roles’ which meant less expectations and less resentment. In fact, there was just more
caring and less control, manipulation. I think originally there was still some scepticism into exploring what a
partnership will be like without love but I can say experientially it’s the way to go. I also had to keep in mind
that we weren’t just eliminating love but replacing it with something better and care and appreciation had to be at
the forefront. VINEETO: For someone who says she feels “a little lonely” for “not believing in love” you are quite eloquent in how many benefits the alternative way of relating has. Who knows, you might even infect others with stories of making a success of your partnership. Cheers Vineeto
CHRONO: I applied this the week prior when my partner and I had a disagreement of sorts. Basically she was upset that I had not drove her home in the morning. I woke up and asked her (admittedly reluctantly) if she wanted me to drive her but I was too hesitant in just getting up and taking her due to my tiredness. Afterwards when I asked her if something was wrong she would say no (all the while the vibe was that something was wrong). After a few days she finally explained it after some prompting. There was the usual fear within me of where even with these disagreements I start to feel ‘oh so this is the end of the relationship’. She wanted me to reciprocate or do something for her in some way to show her that I am sorry (despite me already apologizing). I immediately thought that may be what she wanted was for me to suffer as well. But I declined going down that road. I asked for her part to communicate if she was feeling less than good and say if she doesn’t feel like talking about it at the time. She first said that she felt a little better just expressing her upset. Then after some eating, she was able to reason out that I had already helped her with her move to her new apartment and that she couldn’t ask for more. Throughout this I had the temptation to feel bad along with her because it seemed callous otherwise. I did end up falling into a bout of it but I was able to clearly see its workings while it was happening. It was rather insightful when I told her that I felt like I needed to suffer and she responded with ‘I’m not sure what I can do about that’. Some part of me feels that to suffer for another is caring. Another way that this ‘put others before oneself’ manifests. It’s a deceitful tactic to being more self-absorbed. Actually I am finding that relationship itself or perhaps this “connection” with another person hinges on this way of operating. Because when I contemplate feeling good come what may in this kind of scenario, a fear of the end of the relationship comes up. But I continually find that my partner much more enjoys when I feel good. VINEETO: A fascinating process – especially as you described that “throughout this I had the temptation to feel bad along with her because it seemed callous otherwise”. You could see that “relationship itself or perhaps this “connection” with another person hinges on this way of operating”. The alternative to “relationship” and “connection” with their unwritten implicit implications is being as sincere and naïve as you can allow yourself to be. As Richard describes it in a long correspondence with Martin –
The whole correspondence is a fount of information on the third alternative to suffering together and callousness. Cheers Vineeto
SONYA: I’m just popping this on here cause this has kinda been an ongoing issue that pops up for me quite often and I’m getting sick of it It’s gonna look a bit mental but it’s just word vomit I am trying to make sense of so any help would be appreciated. 11/07/25 – Got upset because I FELT (feeling not fact) Kuba was blaming me for not being able to take jobs on the weekend (…) He changed his mind/ job requests came in – nothing I can do about it/ I did what I could so he could decide what he wanted to do on Friday… so why do I feel blame? – VINEETO: Hi Sonya, What you report is quite a complex situation for you. Hence it might be useful to peel it like an onion. First you report there are the feelings of upset and then blame. Have you noticed how these are almost always come one right after the other, almost indistinguishable from each other. But they are two different feeling. You felt upset because your plans/ expectations were disrupted and then you find someone to blame for the ‘damage’ done. This is the usual automatic instinctive response (so don’t blame yourself), but with diligent and fascinated attentiveness to how you experience yourself each moment you can separate them out. Then, still feeling bad, you endeavour to fix the problem but whatever you do does not help you feeling good. Hence, at this point it would be best to first get back to feeling good yourself while it’s still emerging before complicating it further with reactive action. SONYA: Responsible for how he is feeling? I feel he is now annoyed so now I am no longer happy (because I feel we are connected?) I feel responsible, have a thing about being in trouble/ told off. Authority as well maybe? VINEETO: You talked about this before, that because you like to “feel connected” you therefore “feel responsible for how he is feeling” and you try to make him happy. Yet by focussing on making the other happy you overlook/ ignore how you feel. Also, you don’t know for a fact if he needs help – it is simply an automatic feeling response. Because you feel bad you infer that he is “annoyed” and respond accordingly. He could well have been “annoyed” but then that is first and foremost his own responsibility. SONYA: I feel responsible, have a thing about being in trouble/ told off. Authority as well maybe? VINEETO: I only listed the sequence of events so you can look out for the smaller triggers and in future avert the (so far) inevitable conclusion (“I feel responsible”). It’s a habitual response and you have already found one cause – you want to be responsible because it gives you a connection – it is also possibly that it is an old survival technique acquired when you needed it. But when you get a chance to sort out facts from feelings you might find that it’s no longer needed for your survival but more likely a habit which you can question and replace with something better – a naïve intimacy perhaps? SONYA: This is similar to Ian’s post in some ways but I can’t
quite get to seeing the belief for what it is. VINEETO: What Ian did and reported a few times, he recognized that nobody else is responsible for how he feels. Taking back this authority to choose which feeling he wants to be (as in I am my feelings and my feelings are me) he can then look at his beliefs if they serve him to enjoy and appreciate this moment. Viz.:
If you exchange “being a good employee” for “being a good wife” then you can perhaps acknowledge/ recognize that you make both the rules for the “good wife” and then enforce those rules on both you and him and recognize that those rules are “rooted in fear of punishment but also in desire for reward, whether that is popularity or praise or both”. See if that makes sense for you. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Richard wrote in his journal that it is the man’s identification with authority as the ultimate and the woman’s identification with love as the ultimate which is what stands in the way of intimacy. Indeed I can see this is the case, with authority in my case. In that there is the ‘me’ that ‘I’ assert ‘myself’ to be in relation to ‘others’ – this I can see is an immediate obstacle in the way of intimacy. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed, this is the instinctual and conditioned way – but now you chose to do it the other way, the third alternative. And intimacy is not assertive but inclusive, enticing, friendly, benevolent.
Also, this snippet from Richard’s extensive articles on ‘Peasant Mentality’
At some point you might find it useful to familiarise yourself on the topic, perhaps in instalments, because it relates to most, if not all of one’s social identity issues and thus being “a ‘someone in relation to others’”. Again, a “self-less inclination” in order to imitate the actual does away with the need for being someone, let alone asserting yourself and then it’s much easier to allow naiveté come to the fore which you had been shying away from. KUBA: I can see that in my life I invested into becoming a ‘someone in relation to others’, this is ‘my’ apparent individuality. So initially when allowing intimacy it seems as if I am giving up my very individuality, yet when I look at just what this ‘individuality’ consists of, it is based in separation. Whatever place ‘I’ have carved for ‘myself’ within the hierarchy it is actually what
reinforces ‘me’ as a separative entity and gets in the way of intimacy. And so to consider allowing intimacy it is experienced as if ‘I’ am disarming ‘myself’,
in that ‘I’ will no longer be a ‘someone in particular’ with the power and authority that this might entail. VINEETO: It’s a strange instinctual habit (though unavoidable at first) that when encountering a new possibility of being in a different, more intimate way, one first lists all the things you might loose if you do that, which when you look at those ‘losses’ closely they are not worth anything in regards to what you really want, certainly not the time to worry about it. Whereas you could nourish and foster a naïve excitement of a beneficial discovery operating – think of how young children are eager to learn about the world they find themselves in (until their enthusiasm gets more and more stifled and oppressed. This is the kind of naiveté albeit with adult sensibilities which is the next exploration, and don’t be discouraged when you feel a bit shy or foolish – it’s part of the package – as you quoted Richard in your next message. Just so there is no misunderstanding, lust is not the driver of longing for intimacy –
Cheers Vineeto
JOSEF: I always thought I would apply the actualism method and
become more and more happy and harmless in my relationship. This was kind of the end goal. But in yesterday’s PCE
it became clear to me that I could only act in my partner and I’s best interest if there is no relationship at all.
The relationship is just another part of “me” with all of its problems. During the experience I was
considering “my” parents, partner, brother, friends etc. But it just felt like “his”
(“my”) life with his emotional hang ups. “My” home (with all “my” ideas about home)
became just the place I’m living in right now.
VINEETO: Ha, I can understand this very well. Living in peace and harmony with Peter was also ‘Vineeto’s’ entry point. Here is what ‘she’ reported –
Don’t you find it amazing (worth appreciating) that you start with one worthwhile goal – to live with your partner in peace and harmony – and the more you explore to make it work, the more you discover what this all involves? Now that you know with certainty, from the PCE, that ‘I’/ ‘me’ am the problem, you slowly dismantle whenever ‘I’ and ‘my’ demands, desires, objections, beliefs, etc. get in the way of being happy and harmless and enjoying/ appreciating being here. It’s not complex because it is only ‘me’, in ‘my’ variations, which is the problem. With your preference for a “self-less inclination” you have a clear compass where you want to go. Two hints to make it easier – always get back to feeling good before investigating an obstacle, and remember to be a friend to yourself. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: This is excellent. It takes a bit of getting used to it but when you remember Richard’s quote at the end of this message it makes it all so much more obvious that taking anything serious or emotionally urgent, as per the instinctual imperative, is well and truly a waste of time. CHRONO: I am glad that you pointed this out as an instinctual urgency as framing it this way has helped a lot too. Usually I have approached it as “OCD”. As this way of being does indeed look for problems or create problems (and subsequently try to solve them). The source of which is the “angst and agitation” which I’ve mentioned earlier. I’ve been applying the “it doesn’t really matter basis” to more and more things and it has caused some more ease and enjoyment. VINEETO: Hi Chrono, Remember that it is still the case of what you said before –
And I replied that it was “in line with what Sigmund Freud classified as the aim of psychiatry: to return
patients “back to a state of as near-normal functioning as possible (and ‘normal’ is
categorised by Mr. Sigmund Freud as ‘common human unhappiness’)” The people who invented and use such labels like “OCD” to ‘diagnose’ various
aspects of the human condition can only endeavour to ameliorate the symptoms, if that, but fail to diagnose, let
alone treat, the root cause of the problem itself – the instinctual imperative common to all feeling beings. And
the cute thing is that the solution to the human condition, an actual freedom, has been “classified as a ‘severe
psychotic condition’ in the DSM-IV” by those very same professionals. I am well pleased to hear that “applying the “it doesn’t really matter basis” to more and more things […] has caused some more ease and enjoyment”. CHRONO: This past week I went camping with my partner for the holiday and I noticed that she likes things in a very organized and specific way before she can relax. Otherwise she ends up becoming anxious or antsy. And that caused some frustration on my end as I prefer to do things in a leisurely way. But I saw that that was her way of being and that’s how she deals with it. She also does not readily share how she feels when experiencing a negative feeling as she needs time to process her feelings or she just keeps them bottled inside unless I really ask her. The sour vibe that stems from this causes anxiety on my end as it triggers my urgency to “fix” it. But I’ve already stated my preference to be open about feelings and/or talk through them. And only recently did I see that I’ve been adding fuel to the fire by going along with this way of being. It has been my main obstacle to feeling good now as I feel it to the core. Perhaps all of this is the very instinctual seriousness in action. So putting this on a “it doesn’t really matter basis” has been a huge help. Richard’s quote at the end highlights that I seem to lose sight of this fact of death and thus make everything serious. VINEETO: Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ noticed early into ‘her’ investigations into male-female relationships that men have the instinctual inclination to fix a problem when presented to them, while females are more instinctually inclined to want sympathy and understanding for their emotional problems (reaffirming ‘me’) rather than solving them. The only solution actualism has to offer is dissolution, in other words to become autonomous, so that a near-actual intimacy can ensue. Here are some experiential reports –
I also found a fitting description from Devika in Richard’s Journal –
CHRONO: Also related, I saw in action how I create ripples by even wanting to share how I feel about my anxiety to her because it in turn activates some feeling for her. Even the very desire to share it is self-centric because if I’m being honest, the main reason I want to share is so that she will alleviate it through some commiseration. It does seem like the center of what a relationship is. But that never eliminates the original feeling. Only covers it up. And I realized that by trying to seek solace in this way, I end up reinforcing my way of being and also contributing to negative vibes. VINEETO: How right you are – you create/ feed/ multiply those negative feelings and their accompanying vibes by ‘sharing’ – a word highly valued in modern social circles – unless you share delight and appreciation. Cheers Vineeto
SONYA: So, a while ago I wrote about feeling connected in the nurturing sense. I noticed I had the tendency to relate to people in a nurturing way. I have been noticing lately when I begin to do that and to nip it in the bud. I notice the good feelings come up, and the difference between a preference and a good feeling. For example, my brother in law often comes back to our house for a week every 2 weeks or so. I noticed he tends not to have much time to cook himself dinner so I thought it would make more sense for him to join in on our dinners whenever he’d like. There was no nurturing feelings come up from this, it was a clean offer in which he could accept or decline as he pleases. There is no involvement from ‘me’ looking for the good feelings from nurture and on the opposite no bad feelings if he decides to decline my offer. So this has been some nice progress. What I seem to still be stuck on, and this became startling clear last night, is that I am still feeling connected to Kuba in some other way. I am so easily and greatly effected by his vibe towards me. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, You start by saying you feel connected but what this ‘connection’ is comprised of that you want his approval – and when his mood/ vibes indicate he does not approve of you in certain situations, you are not feeling good. This quote from Richard might be informative –
In other words, the identity, being a contingent ‘being’, dependant on the confirmation of others to confirm ‘your’ existence is seeking this confirmation primarily from your live-in partner and therefore how you feel is dependent on this (positive) confirmation. As such you can nip in the bud the relating to people in a nurturing way but unless you understand the pattern of your dependency you only shift the process of being acknowledged/ confirmed from one person to the other. Nipping in the bud only works when you have already understood the underlying cause in each situation, in this case dependency. Here is something ‘Vineeto’ wrote about gaining more and more autonomy –
The whole section is worth reading. And another piece about autonomy instead of ‘being authentic’ –
SONYA: I think it’s still the authority. I still relate to
him in that sense and I have become entirely sick of it. How have I given up my own autonomy so easily to someone who
is also another feeling being capable of being angry, lashing out etc. and not expecting him to do so? I see that I
have put my life in his hands (whether he wanted it or not) trusting and expecting him to be gentle and kind 24/7.
How unfair and how silly. As I am writing this it’s becoming more clear why I am so effected by his vibe towards
me, I put how I am feeling into his hands, completely at his mercy to do with as he pleases. I have not taken control
of my own life in that sense so when he does lash out I feel utterly helpless and it feels like the rug is ripped out
from under my feet and I there is no continuing. All very dramatic and world ending. Maybe it won’t be so intense
and all consuming if I didn’t put my life in his hands. VINEETO: Well, you don’t have much choice – about 99.9% of human beings are feeling
beings with exactly the same predicament, including yourself. To blame the other never ever solves the problem, it
only compounds it. Now that you noticed and acknowledged that you put your life and happiness in his hands (which is
what love does), you can take your life into your own hands and be fully responsible for your own happiness and
harmlessness, whatever the circumstances. That’s what actualism means, dedicate your life to be happy and harmless,
eventually unconditionally so. And that is what you both set out to do at the start of your acquaintance, live
together in peace and harmony, each cleaning themselves up to be able to do that. The latest spat between you and
Kuba (here How about eradicating full-blown anger as Richard described here SONYA: [Addendum]: It’s scary for me to contemplate doing
this as it means severing our ‘relationship’. Of course, logically I can see the benefits and sense in it but to
actually see it, want it completely 100%, and do it is a different action. VINEETO: I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do it change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Replying to this one here – Sonya’s journal -
#188 by Vineeto Hi Vineeto,
That is a rather succinct way of describing it and I totally agree, and gosh looking at what is currently going on in the forum it looks like we may have infected others too! [grimace]. It is instructive to read your response in Sonya’s journal and be reminded of what harmlessness looks like. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I appreciate your sensible reply, and this was the reason I specially emphasised the
harmlessness in my reply to Sonya. After all, this forum is “set up to enable and facilitate the discussion
of actualism” (DA Welcome Page KUBA: So now that I can look at it sensibly there is something useful that this “latest spat” (broadcasted publicly no less) highlighted for me. Essentially it is that I cannot be harmless as long as there are ‘hooks’ in me or ‘buttons’ which can be pressed. And in fact that is exactly what everybody else is doing / has been doing already, in that everybody wants to be peaceful and harmonious and yet good intentions are simply not enough if one is carrying all these ‘hooks’ or ‘buttons’ which can and will sooner or later be activated. Then of course it is easier to apportion blame to the other, for having been “unreasonable enough” to trigger my response, and yet I am the one carrying those unexamined buttons. Also this sets in motion a race to pinpoint the first person who was “out of line”. Yes, this is the magical secret of actualism – it is in your hands alone to unilaterally become more happy and more harmless. If something upsets you, you look for the “hook” and resolve it – either good feelings or bad feelings – even when the temptation to be righteously angry beckons. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ wrote in 2002 –
This might also be informative –
It is because of these emotional strings that you feel an affective pull or threat when the
other person is changing their position towards you. So when Sonya wrote “It’s scary for me to contemplate
doing this as it means severing our ‘relationship’” most likely ‘fright’ would have been your first
instinctual reaction, quickly followed by a ‘fight’ response. All you can do in such an intense situation is
keeping your hands in your pockets, calm down, and then allow sensibility to take back the driver’s seat. Remember,
according to LeDoux’ experimental findings KUBA: I see the above very clearly now, I mean it’s right in the open and cannot be ignored. The other related thing is that as long as those ‘buttons’/ ‘hooks’ remain whatever ‘harmlessness’ I generate will be conditional, which means it will require that I change others in line with it, which means that sooner or later I have to resort to force, so then it is still not harmless! And thirdly, and this is exactly what I have been doing for years now – not wanting to engage in conflict I will resort to a quiet resentment against “all the unfairness, injustice etc”. VINEETO: Indeed. Ha, “quiet resentment”, even in the name of pacifism, is not harmless either. And yet, it is such a simple solution, at least in principle, that it instantly appealed to ‘Vineeto’ when she understood Richard’s reports and explanations and then had a PCE to confirm it all. In practice the discovering, acknowledging and then dismantling of those hooks or ‘triggers’ takes longer but each time you take responsibility and dissolve them it’s a stunning success, leaving no scars. KUBA: So I see this whole house of cards that has been exposed here, in that sense I am glad that those events took place, along with the “public broadcast” as there is no hiding now. So I am actually rather excited now, to see what ‘buttons’ exist in me and to attend to those so that a genuine and unconditional harmlessness can be discovered, exciting times! VINEETO: That’s great to hear, a whole new adventure beckons. KUBA: And rest assured the vibes in the household have already
shifted from a thunderstorm to white cloudy skies with some sun poking through. VINEETO: I am pleased you (both?) have seen it so quickly. I am looking forward to hearing of your respective discoveries in the new way of relating in naïve intimacy. Cheers Vineeto
SONYA: Hi Vineeto, Thanks for your reply, things have settled down and we have managed to enjoy our weekend with my friend staying over. Now that the dust has settled, I’m starting to see things a little clearer without the cloud of frustration/ anger/ sadness. This has given me quite a bit to think about. I look forward to exploring what’s going on. I can tell there is definitely an element of an unsure little girl hiding behind his legs, waiting for approval, checking with him to ensure everything is safe. Of course, if he gets upset with me, I feel “told off”, to the point of in a heated moment, “sticking to my guns” to blame him for my upset. In the moment I needed him to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Good. Now that you see it a bit clearer, can you understand that someone has to stop the tit-for-tat blame-game if you both want to live in peace and harmony? And because the only person you can change is yourself – the buck can stop with you, if you choose to. So instead of aiming your actions “to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again” you have the choice “in a heated moment” to unilaterally keep your hands in your pocket, sit quietly until you cooled off and feel good again. It may seem scary at first but if you succeed not to suppress or express your “frustration/ anger/ sadness” in that “heated moment” you will experience your own autonomy coming to the fore. Doing this you get to experience the confidence that you can indeed deal with your emotions in a constructive and harmless way. And if you succeed once, you know you can do it next time as well. And what a joy when you dealt with your emotions to then share your success and your insights with him. * VINEETO: I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do is change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy. SONYA: Yes, I can see why that sounds rather radical. I admit I was still feeling rather raw whilst writing this. I more so meant the “relationship” I have in my head, the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real. The relationship in which I have decided my partner’s role is a provider/ protecter or can very quickly switch to aggressor/ villein. I hope that is a bit more clear. I’d very much like to end that and meet the actual Kuba. VINEETO: This is certainly more clear, and again, the onus is on you to change this kind of relationship, unilaterally. After all, as you said “the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real” and therefore you can choose to aim for a different kind of relationship. You can, gradually, stand on your own two feet, don’t expect to be protected and provided for and can relate with your partner in a more amicable basis. I remember we talked about a feeling being is a “persona” –
You had said in reply –
VINEETO: Well, you obviously decided that you no longer like being this chosen persona because you found it counterproductive. With this realisation you can now begin to explore and dismantle all the different aspects of what this ‘persona’ of Sonya consists of, in your own good time, and abandon whatever aspect you no longer find conducive to living in peace and harmony. Some aspects can be abandoned right away, others will need some insightful contemplation and courage to put into action. You will be surprised, that in the end all layers of one’s social identity, and expressions of the instinctual passions, are standing in the way of peace and harmony and thus enjoying and appreciating being alive. The more sincere (less of a persona) you become the better the chance to “meet the actual Kuba”. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: The fact remains that no amount of sophistication or
refinement will land one at naiveté. It’s not like one of my games either where if I grind away at some monsters
for a few hours I will earn that next weapon set and then breeze through the rest of the game – which this is the
kind of MO I have observed here, as if naiveté could be located that way. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Even though I only had the trap of Altered States of Consciousness in mind, as for instance
described here
It certainly worked for ‘Vineeto’. KUBA: I think I might be at risk of being placed into a diagram here, but I will say that all the “uncomfortable emotional stuff” cannot be conveniently walked around, and for the kind of persona pre-disposed to intellectualising I would say that the remedy is to dare to aim for intimacy, not with objects but with fellow human beings. I have found this in myself (as that kind of persona) that this challenge to aim for intimacy was initially like trying to mix oil with water, but eventually it made one thing clear, that this “uncomfortable emotional stuff” would have to be resolved head on. VINEETO: I appreciate your observation – when one aspires intimacy in a living-together arrangement, a lot of “uncomfortable emotional stuff” has to come out in the open and needs to be dealt with, if men and women want to succeed in living together in peace and harmony. KUBA: Although I will put a qualifier on this, that it was
aiming for intimacy with the person I live with (rather than a passing exchange at a coffee shop etc) which was where
the tyre met the road, to borrow a phrase. And the intimacy I am referring to here is not some high level near actual
intimacy, I am talking of – can ‘I’ as a feeling being, find a way to get consistently close to another, which
means that the mine-field of the “uncomfortable emotional stuff” will have to be patiently and sincerely
addressed. VINEETO: You expressed it expertly and from your ongoing experience.
What better way to turn one’s life around and do something down-to-earth and pragmatic for peace-on-earth and one’s own felicity and innocuity at the same time. Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer |
