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(List D refers to Richard’s List D Vineeto’s Correspondence with Kuba on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: Things are still going well, I can see now what I have been doing the past year, in that ‘I’ would creep up to the possibility of something happening and then ‘I’ would immediately arrogate ‘myself’ over the whole process and it would all become stillborn once again. Those things which you have mentioned to me Vineeto – such as standing still and letting the dust settle, this is making sense now. In that ‘I’ cannot end ‘myself’ but ‘I’ can actively set in motion a process that will result in ‘my’ demise. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed – the way to “actively set in motion a process that will result in ‘my’ demise” is described here …
KUBA: So what I have been doing is acclimatising myself to remain in that place where all is wonderful, without moving in either direction. It’s fascinating because ‘I’ am standing still and yet a lot is going on. But somehow in the past this is precisely where ‘I’ would feel this need to pull the trigger on something, to move somewhere, do something. Perhaps because allowing this process is literally eroding at ‘my’ very foundations, it’s inviting the final situation where ‘I’ am exposed. There are still brief reversions into ‘me’ surviving again, but this is less and less now. I experience it as if there are no objections anymore but of course there must be something. BUT I understand now that whatever the last objection may be, ‘I’ am not to go looking for it/ solving it as the ‘doer’, it can come naturally to the surface whilst ‘I’ remain in the wonderful place. VINEETO: The more objections fall by the wayside, and the more you are acclimatising yourself to “that place where all is wonderful”, the less ‘self’-centric you find yourself to be, because “that place where all is wonderful” is for everybody. In other words, such diminished ‘self’-centricity makes room for a genuine caring for your fellow human beings, who are all as much afflicted with being an alien identity as you are. Here is something you can try just for fun and pure enjoyment –
KUBA: I do have an inkling that it is related to the
irrevocability of actual freedom, not that it is difficult or dangerous or anything of the kind rather that it is
irrevocable – but that irrevocability, it is also wonderful… No way at all to ever go back to the land of lament.
In fact if it was not irrevocable it would not be the final solution, it would not deliver the goods. Hehe Richard
wrote that he would not change a single bit about the universe, I find that more and more these days, it is perfect.
VINEETO: And now that you are gradually coming to terms with the once-in-a-lifetime-decision to leave your ‘self’ behind (which, once taken, cannot be undone) the intermediate playground becomes obvious and the next sensible step … KUBA: It has become clear to me why stepping out from control is what happens
prior to self-immolation, … VINEETO: With increasing diminishment of self-centredness/ self-centricity this is where the real fun, delight, marvel and wonder can fully flourish and full benefit of the actualism way of living reveals itself. Appreciation expands into wonder, amazement, joie de vivre, amiability, bonhomie, relish, gusto and naïve sensuosity and intimacy. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Thank you for your wonderful reply. It’s for sure much more fun when what is being discussed is based on my ongoing experience rather than some map ‘out there’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, That’s good to hear. It reminds me of a situation when we were leisurely cruising along a narrow creek in the little dinghy. It was a very picturesque stream with old rainforest trees arching over the water from both sides, gnarly roots exposed on the bank, some ducks swimming in the distance, which completed the amazing atmosphere in this wild and new to us stretch of the various waterways in our area. Suddenly we sighted a car driving close by, and it was explained as being the country road to the neighbouring village, which ‘Vineeto’ had travelled several times, which ran for a short distance along the bank of the creek. At that moment, these two different worlds just didn’t mix, there the one on land which had clear points of reference for ‘her’, from ‘here’ to ‘there’, and the other, an astonishing world of deep green mixed with some blue, a hushed silence, light and shadow and gurgling water, full of wonder and delight for the senses, an unexplored, fresh and pristine wonderland. * VINEETO: And now that you are gradually coming to terms with the once-in-a-lifetime-decision to leave your ‘self’ behind (which, once taken, cannot be undone) the intermediate playground becomes obvious and the next sensible step … KUBA: It has become clear to me why stepping out from control is what
happens prior to self-immolation, … VINEETO: And, with increasing diminishment of self-centredness/ self-centricity this is where the real fun, delight, marvel and wonder can fully flourish and full benefit of the actualism way of living reveals itself. Appreciation expands into wonder, amazement, joie de vivre, amiability, bonhomie, relish, gusto and naïve sensuosity and intimacy. KUBA: Thank you, you wrote this so well – basically now that I have genuine confidence that living out from control is the way to go the “training wheels” can properly come off. Of course, ‘I’ cannot take full advantage of the “actualism way of living” if ‘I’ am still committed to the ‘tried and true’. I understood this the other day, that the answer cannot be located within the human condition, that ‘I’ can never generate the answer, which means that whatever control ‘I’ try to exert, it can only lead ‘me’ back deeper into the human condition. VINEETO: This is an important realisation that the ‘real’ world and the actual world never ever meet and that there is no sliding progression from one to the other. ‘I’ will never experience actuality (full-stop). Once this is fully taken on board you also gradually realise the liberating nature of this irrefutable fact. KUBA: So instead ‘I’ step out from control and allow the universe to live this life – this is where the genuine answer can be lived, and as you said – it is where “the real fun, delight, marvel and wonder can fully flourish”. VINEETO: Allowing the universe to live you may also discover and recognize the various rules, principles, edicts, habits, dogmas and truths designed to keep you in the real world, and one by one you can undo their grip over you. They are easy to recognize – whenever enjoyment and appreciation diminish, the culprit is most likely one of those real-world dogmas. As Richard says, “with pure intent the universe is with you all the way”. If in doubt, imitate the actual. * VINEETO: The more objections fall by the wayside, and the more you are acclimatising yourself to “that place where all is wonderful”, the less ‘self’-centric you find yourself to be, because “that place where all is wonderful” is for everybody. In other words, such diminished ‘self’-centricity makes room for a genuine caring for your fellow human beings, who are all as much afflicted with being an alien identity as you are. KUBA: Yes the other day I was thinking about my work situation and it was regarding my wages. I was aware of the 2 failed options which ‘I’ have oscillated between thus far in ‘my’ life. Which was either to ‘put the other before oneself’ or to ‘take what is mine’ (typically at the expense of the other), I was feeling all the feelings associated with those 2 options and I realised that neither of them can ever work. Again this was ‘me’ controlling ‘my’ life, and doing a bad job of it. It clicked then
than what I always wanted deep down, and what I was always drawn towards was for each and every interaction with a
fellow human being to be of maximum benefit to all. ‘I’ saw that ‘I’ am not capable of that, ‘my’ control
can never operate in this manner, but that it was possible to live like that and that all ‘I’ have to do is allow
the universe to live this life, because in the place where all is wonderful it is exactly like that, and effortlessly
so. VINEETO: Have you ever heard of a win-win situation? When you find yourself caught between two unliveable options you can be confident that there is a third alternative. Instead of hope or despair there is confidence in the perfection of infinitude, instead of unselfishness or selfishness there is equity and parity, instead of love or hate or loneliness there is near-actual intimacy. Again, if in doubt, imitate the actual. It is so eloquently and extensively reported/ explained and described in Richard’s writings that you never have to be trapped by the dilemma of the traditional (materialistic or spiritualistic) paradigm again. I can also recommend the Srinath-correspondence regarding the maxim of “putting the other
before oneself”. I found it very informative, every time I have read it: Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Oh and I will just add with regards to the below :
In the past this was experienced as a severe threat, to consider allowing the above, this must be interesting for you to read, how ‘I’ make something so delightful into a threat but indeed it was scary to contemplate. The closeness and the delight of such proximity, that can be terrifying for ‘me’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, What you say is no surprise as ‘Vineeto’ had similar feelings regarding more and more intimacy which meant being increasingly naked with less and less to hide, and this included an exploratory period after becoming basically free. And yet was so utterly delightful whenever a barrier is overcome and the bester time of my life. KUBA: But it is not like so anymore, there is still something
like a cautiousness there, but mixed in with this cautiousness there is also this possibility of something sweet to be
found in that direction. VINEETO: That’s good to hear. Grace’s gradations may be of help (or you make your own)
and usually the process is a back and forth of daring and retreating and then caring and daring again. You might find
the selected correspondence on sensuousness Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It’s wonderful when it all starts falling into place and all the originally puzzling mysteries finally makes sense. In her first months of acquaintance with actualism, ‘Vineeto’ felt as if her brain was being turned upside down –
(The whole email is quite amusing). Just one minor correction – KUBA: But fear, aggression, nurture and desire, these are not
genuine things. It is the perfection and purity of infinitude which is pre-eminent, the passions are an affective
creation. VINEETO: The instinctual passions are not “an affective creation” – they are the genetically encoded source of affections, emotions and passions (and with it the imaginative/ intuitive faculty) and they are the only way sentient life could develop and thrive … until human intelligence has evolved to the point of apperception being possible, which now can render the genetically encoded instinctual passions in human beings redundant. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO to Chrono:
KUBA: I find this topic very fascinating, it’s somewhat all back to front for ‘me’ … I remember Richard wrote:
VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I see you returned to the same topic that you started more than a year ago –
And again:
And yet you still say “it’s somewhat all back to front for ‘me’”, in other words ‘you’ still seem to look for a resolution in the real world, perhaps it’s hidden in fantasy and supernatural fiction? Somewhere deep down ‘you’ want to live forever, else why be object to ‘my’ extinction? KUBA: Me and Sonya have been watching the show Supernatural, it’s about 2 demon hunters essentially. Currently in the show one of the hunters made a deal with the devil, that in order to bring his brother back from the dead he would sell his soul, and that in precisely 1 year he would be sent to hell for eternity. And actually this makes Richard’s point exactly, death as extinction does not have any of these kinds of problems associated with it. It is only because deep down ‘I’ feel and believe that ‘I’ am eternal that heavens and hells have to be invented to continue on ‘my’ story, for eternity. But it is exactly that which is what ‘I’ find so terrifying about death, that since ‘I’ am (apparently) immortal then ‘I’ will simply discard this body, but then where do ‘I’ go? Is it into some abyss where ‘I’ will exist alone for eternity? etc. Essentially ‘I’ cannot conceive of not ‘being’ so ‘I’ imagine ‘myself’ ‘being’ even past this body’s physical death, which of course cannot happen. VINEETO: Here is the reason –
KUBA: So this is where the back to front thing comes in… In that accepting mortality
would actually be a release for ‘me’, which is not how ‘I’ typically would experience it. VINEETO: Something far more is needed than “accepting mortality”, accepting that you will physically die one day. What is required is to inquire with utter sincerity into the spiritual dream of being an immortal soul. Upon utterly genuine inquiry you might come to see, to apperceptively understand, that ‘you’ are standing in the way of perfection and innocence becoming apparent –
When you let this understanding penetrate the very core of your ‘being’ something amazing starts to happen. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Me and Sonya have been watching the show Supernatural, it’s about 2 demon hunters essentially. Currently in the show one of the hunters made a deal with the devil, that in order to bring his brother back from the dead he would sell his soul, and that in precisely 1 year he would be sent to hell for eternity. And actually this makes Richard’s point exactly, death as extinction does not have any of these kinds of problems associated with it. It is only because deep down ‘I’ feel and believe that ‘I’ am eternal that heavens and hells have to be invented to continue on ‘my’ story, for eternity. But it is exactly that which is what ‘I’ find so terrifying about death, that since ‘I’ am (apparently) immortal then ‘I’ will simply discard this body, but then where do ‘I’ go? Is it into some abyss where ‘I’ will exist alone for eternity? etc. Essentially ‘I’ cannot conceive of not ‘being’ so ‘I’ imagine ‘myself’ ‘being’ even past this body’s physical death, which of course cannot happen. VINEETO: Here is the reason –
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you, you hit the nail on the head here – I never thought to consider that side of it. ‘I’ have been busy looking at mortality as a physical phenomenon, which it probably had some benefits too. But I see your point loud and clear, in that ‘I’ am not physical/ material/ actual, ‘my’ existence as a ‘being’ is necessarily in some way metaphysical, even when by and large the various religious/ spiritual beliefs have been eradicated. VINEETO: Here is the quote from Richard more explicitly explained by Peter –
And another – because this topic caused quite an indignant stir on the mailing list at the time –
KUBA: In that sense one is only a genuine atheist upon actual freedom.
I will see what I can find here. VINEETO: Perhaps some new, non-spiritual, down-to-earth, actual questions regarding your concept/ idea of ‘your’ perception of the universe can reveal some sensible replies – Is it infinite? Here is a little story from feeling being ‘Vineeto’ –
It might also be informative to click on the small tool-tip on the Actual Freedom Homepage This is so you understand a bit better what ‘imitating the actual’ means in practice and in detail – should you on occasion not be able to recall the flavour and atmosphere of your PCE – so that you are able to nip in the bud, or sensibly investigate, any seductive fantasy, imagination, fiction, wishful thinking, intuition or any other interfering feeling regarding the job ‘you’ set out to do. The following quote is for a chuckle and a helpful reminder –
By the way, the Selected Correspondence on Spiritual(2) Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, So I have been looking at this the past few days and it seems to me that there are no spiritual beliefs or fantasies masquerading as the truth. All that I am able to locate is that very “intuitive ‘presence’ which is the instinctual
passions in action”, the impression of being present and existing over time as an ‘entity’. All that comes up is that there is not even space for ‘my’ soul, that ‘my’ ‘being’ can only have an illusory/ delusory existence. Is it that because ‘I’ feel/believe ‘myself’ to be genuine that ‘I’ remain? That weight of ‘being’ it requires belief in order to sustain it. The ‘drama’ requires a ‘believer’, in fact they are one and the same thing. This is all I can find here. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Thank you for informative reply. It appears that despite your fascinated contemplation your thinking and probing remained in the confines (the paradigm) of ‘me’ – how far ‘I’ can go in ‘my’ most sincere exploration. You could indeed say that ‘being’ and the ‘drama’ requiring a ‘believer’ are one and the same. This might give you a clue why –
You can read more of this excerpt if you want to discover what comes next. KUBA: Just to add to the above, it is that impression of being present and existing over time as an ‘entity’ which is the source of ‘my’ belief in immortality. Belief doesn’t seem quite right here as ‘I’ don’t actually believe that ‘I’ will persist after this body dies, it’s more like a fundamental impression. VINEETO: There is of course another approach. So far you have been contemplating from the perspective of ‘me’ and concluded that “there is not even space for ‘my’ soul, that ‘my’ ‘being’ can only have an illusory/ delusory existence”. Now combine sensible reason and naiveté with commonsense about what is actual and be fascinatingly curious about the nature of actual time.
*
There is heaps more to get lost in when reading one or both pages of the selected correspondence
on time Note that naïve fascination, amazement, marvel and wonderment are essential for the exploration to catapult you into an experiential understanding of what is being said. Infinitude, [infinite extent, amount, duration, a boundless expanse; an unlimited time] cannot be understood rationally from within the boundaries of ‘me’. For ‘me’ it is incredible, incomprehensible, unbelievable and unimaginable. One must come to one’s senses ... both literally and metaphorically. Once you do, you will instantly grasp that there is neither space nor time for an immortal, i.e. eternal ‘something’ – hence it can only be a product of an impassioned imagination – because in actuality there is only now, only this moment exists. By the way, there is no fear, including no fear of physical death, once the identity self-immolated. KUBA: Aaand to add some more,
I remember when I first read Richard’s writings years ago I thought “why on earth would ‘he’ have given up
immortality for actual freedom”, immortality seemed precious. Whereas now this is the other way around, in that
‘I’ am happily searching for a way to become extinct, ‘my’ immortality has been exposed for what it is –
suffering, and it is the possibility of ‘my’ extinction which is now precious. VINEETO: That is excellent. Yet, it is not so much that “the possibility of ‘my’ extinction which is now precious” but what will become apparent by ‘your’ extinction –
As Chrono pointed out in his most recent message to you Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: This quote from Richard has been on my mind, indeed it describes the situation well for ‘me’. I remember what ‘I’ was like 10 years ago and ‘I’ would have given anything to experience life in the manner that ‘I’ do now. And yet ‘I’ know that it is still second best, the thing is the first place is not for ‘me’! So it is that either ‘I’ would continue to live the second best or ‘I’ give up all of ‘myself’ so that this body, that body and everybody can live the first place. It’s not ‘me’ giving up second place so that ‘I’ can have the first place, rather it is ‘me’ giving up the best that ‘I’ can have for something infinitely better for this body, that body and everybody. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, The fascinating aspect of your observation when comparing your life today with what it was ten years ago, is that without wanting to go all the way you wouldn’t be how you are today (as you say yourself further below). The pure intent garnered from your PCEs was part and parcel of your journey. It may be different for everyone how they choose to live their lives but feeling being ‘Vineeto’ always knew that virtual freedom, both before and after being out-from-control, was a precarious stage and could be lost any time if/ when pure intent was lost. So even in those periods when ‘Vineeto’ was ‘running away’, procrastinating or feeling stuck, there was one grim determination that made ‘her’ persist and that was “don’t do a Devika”, i.e. don’t ever turn away completely. Devika, when transmogrifying into Irene gave ‘her’ an excellent demonstration of what not to do. It all helped to finally leave my ‘self’ behind. KUBA: And it is odd that ‘I’ know that ‘I’ will do that exactly, as Richard wrote
“Is it an admixture of pride and dignity, perhaps?” – After-all ‘I’ did set off on this adventure in
order to go all the way, and furthermore how could ‘I’ ever settle for ‘my’ second best when ‘I’ know
something so much better is available, just not for ‘me’ haha. VINEETO: Indeed, and it’s more than “an admixture of pride and dignity” in ‘Vineeto’s’ experience, it is also the pure intent, even when temporary dormant. It can be resurrected any time you ask for it. After all, the beneficence and benevolence of the actual universe itself is right here now the moment you direct your attention to it. KUBA: So I have been fascinated that there is this capacity which ‘I’ have, an aspect
of the programming bestowed by blind nature which can be utilised in order to end the human condition. And that this
aspect of the programming does not require any learning or cultivating or anything like that, it requires the correct
situation in order to be triggered. And I don’t mean that ‘I’ passively sit back and wait for something to
happen. Rather I mean that the gun is already loaded and the finger is on the trigger, it’s all set to go in other
words (this is not in reference to any “special psychic gun” btw, just that ‘I’ am already capable of
altruism by nature of being a ‘self’). VINEETO: Instead of thinking about altruism as a programming or a “psychic gun” (i.e. conceptually), there is an easier way to approach it experientially – you can become aware of such situations whenever you have a choice of being less self-centric than you would habitually be, simply because it feels good. Being less ‘self’-centric is the natural consequence of more and more naïve enjoyment and appreciation. Increasing kindness, generosity, magnanimity, bonhomie, friendliness and consideration will noticeably decrease being concerned about ‘me’ and ‘my’ problems, and appreciation, marvel and wonderment widen the outlook and horizon about all the magnificent happening beyond ‘my’ own narrow horizon – and a magical fairy-tale-like world becomes more and more apparent. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Yes I can 100% remember those kind of instances, in fact I was thinking about this yesterday, that the good/bad feelings are identity enhancing, whereas in the direction of felicity and innocuity ‘I’ as ‘self’ become more and more… irrelevant? it’s like the good/bad feelings draw a deeper and harder boundary to ‘me’ as ‘self’, whereas with those felicitous feelings ‘I’ am almost as if slowly being rubbed out, of course never quite but it can lead to a marked diminishment in that feeling of separation. So yes I can experience times when ‘I’ am being far less ‘self’-centric and it is always wonderful when it happens. But is this altruism? Or is your point that it can lead to where altruism can be activated? VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Softening the boundaries of ‘me’ allows you to consider everyone, who is not ‘me’, else why even contemplate an altruistic act. Remember the long correspondence Richard had with Srinath regarding real-world compassionate/ non-compassionate caring and near-actual caring, which I recently recommended to you?
Perhaps a refreshing of this – and the follow up – correspondence on that page is helpful for you to recognize the correlation of being harmless, considerate, kind, gentle, generous, magnanimous, friendly, and therefore less ‘self’-centric and self-absorbed, and thus able to, and interested in, an increasing caring and inter-personal intimacy to the point of an acutely-empathic caring (equivalent to a near-actual-caring), which for ‘Vineeto’ motivated ‘her’ altruistic action. Perhaps it’s also worth emphasising that being out-from-control is epitomized by a complete absence of self-centredness –
Point 4, 5 and 6 should complete the understanding for you how it is all related (if possibly without becoming a concept). KUBA: So I seem to be a little confused here… Richard has written that altruism sets in motion a process which leads to ‘my’ self-immolation and you have written to me that once altruism is activated it can be all over in an instant. Is it that as ‘I’ become less and less ‘self’-centric as an ongoing modus operandi that ‘I’ invite a situation where altruism is activated and ‘I’ am extirpated OR is it that “keeping the window open” of this ongoing progression into being less and less ‘self’-centric is altruism in operation, that this is the process which will lead to ‘my’ demise? VINEETO: Being “less and less ‘self’-centric” is not altruism, it is thinning out the dominance of ‘me’ in order to allow the universe to live me. Altruism is a single act which leads to ‘my’ demise. ‘Vineeto’ didn’t even think about altruism at the end, it just happened when all fell into place. Or to put it another way, you can’t think your way out of existence. There is no either-or, the only process is as Geoffrey put it so brilliantly –
I simply suggested an experiential approach the way ‘Vineeto’ experienced and utilized it. KUBA: Also is it possible to altruistically set the process in
motion and then to obstruct it from completion? Furthermore is that what I have been doing by magically finding
another ‘problem’ each time? VINEETO: Yes, having read all of what you have written so far, this is entirely possible. But then again, dealing with your objection to physical death one day, and giving up your dream of your soul’s immortality was certainly a necessary beneficial process. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So I woke up pretty excited about this new thing to explore – actual intimacy. It clicked yesterday that essentially I conflated an emotional intimacy with actual intimacy and then wrongly thought that to get close to the other meant to wade into the waters of emotional intimacy. So whatever resistance I had towards getting close to the other, it was based in a misunderstanding. I have re-memorated the flavour of actual intimacy, a direct experiencing of the other. In short there is nothing that could go wrong there! And it is a delicious thing, to experience the actuality of the other, that they are here now as a flesh and blood body. Now I am genuinely excited at this possibility, to experience the other directly. There is this rather cliche sign that hangs upon entrances to various martial arts academies –
“Leave your ego at the door”, the door to actual intimacy has a similar sign but it reads – “Leave
‘your’ self at the door”. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is splendid. It is indeed a delicious enterprise to experientially explore with eventually having nothing to hide – where you can allow the universe to live you more and more and let the felicitous and innocuous feelings (kindness, gentleness, consideration, friendliness, appreciation and wonder, to name but a few) flourish. Remember, you cannot avoid feelings as long as you are a feeling being – you can only channel all occurring feelings into felicitous and innocuous feelings. Here is what Richard means by ‘naked’ –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for your reply, I had quite a day yesterday! It is all clicking into place. I will start with the weird one… You wrote to me a while ago that upon actual freedom one sees that there has been an existential joke there all along, in that ‘I’ never existed in the first place. I was driving yesterday and all the while intensely focused on discovering what it means to be actually intimate. There is something that Srinath wrote shortly after becoming free which I read the other day, this I had in my mind and was fascinated by it :
And it clicked then that it is as I wrote “the door to actual intimacy has a similar sign but it reads – “Leave ‘your’ self at the door”.” In that ‘I’ am those clothes which need to be shed so that this body can experience “the magnificent universe” as Srinath wrote. Thinking about it now reminds me of Geoffrey’s post too because he was referring to the same thing :
And I can see that this is what Richard refers to by “being naked” :
In short it is ‘my’ very self which is the “something to hide”, and this act of ‘me’ hiding in ‘my’ hiding place is what creates this uncrossable gulf which stands in the way of actual intimacy. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, So you understand from the quotes of three actually free people that ‘I’ “stand in the way of actual intimacy” – so far so good. ‘I’ am standing in the way of actuality becoming apparent. But then you immediately follow it up with a semantic (i.e. theoretical, rational) explanation why that is so, thereby avoiding the practical action of slowly enticing ‘me’ out of ‘my’ hiding place. KUBA: And so at one moment I had 2 words in mind – “myself” and “a self”, I realised immediately that they are referring to 2 vastly different things, one refers to a fact and the other to a belief/ illusion. In that an actually free person might very well use the words “myself” when referencing the very flesh and blood body in question, whereas “a self” is what ‘I’ am as an ontological ‘being’, a ‘thing-in-itself’. And then there was this seeing that this ‘thing-in-itself’ is completely and utterly an illusion, in that not only does it not actually exist, it never existed in the first place. This was not ‘me’ doing the seeing but rather it was happening to ‘me’. VINEETO: Then you attempt to overcome the gulf between the real world and the actual world by convincing yourself that “‘thing-in-itself’ is completely and utterly an illusion”. The reason I wonder if this ‘seeing’ was anything more than a red herring is because until you become actually free ‘you’ are very real, passionately (and cunningly) so. As you contemplated yourself in your next message –
While in hindsight – after the event of self-immolation – this is seen as factual, such line of inquiry, theoretically taking ‘me’ for a mere illusion, when experiential ‘I’/ ‘me’ am a very passionate entity, does nothing to remove ‘my’ fear of death for instance, as your follow-up panic attack demonstrated. Please also bear in mind that many who meditated on ‘I’ being an illusion ended up becoming self-realized or even enlightened –
As such, the powerful instinct for survival can only be overcome by the stronger instinct of altruism –
What I am endeavouring to emphasise is that as long as you avoid your feelings and passions – who you are – you cannot discover the vital clues, which prevent you from whole-heartedly agreeing to ‘your’ demise –
It is exactly this shying away from “emotional intimacy” which obscures the possibility for near-actual intimacy (actual intimacy only happens when there is no ‘self’). These emotions hovering in the background when getting close need to be felt in order to for you to recognize and untangle them as per the actualism method and channel them into felicitous and innocuous feelings. Only approaching intimacy when the ‘self’ is temporarily absent, or a mere rational exploration via exclusion of what is obviously still extant as a potential (else why fear and reject them) is not going to remove this obstacle to experience intimacy. KUBA: And so for the remainder of the drive I was utterly fascinated by just how close an actual freedom is! It is so very close because the entity which needs to be extirpated does not actually exist in the first place. I understood then why (as seen by ‘me’) you have been so optimistic throughout my correspondence with you, that step towards actual freedom it is such a short step, it could happen to anyone at any time because all that happens is that an illusion is no more. Of course somehow ‘I’ evaded the totality of this seeing because ‘I’ am writing these words. But ‘I’ have confidence in bucket-fulls now that it is for sure possible for ‘me’ to become extinct. Later on this wonder turned into something like a mini panic attack, but I was able to ride this out rather easily this time around. VINEETO: Here the panic attack confirms that there are still powerful feelings to look at – don’t push them away or avoid them. You will find once you don’t fight them but acknowledge them as who you are, they diminish and can be easily untangled. Treat ‘me’ as an ally rather than an antagonist, who can eventually be enticed to recognize/ fully comprehend the best solution for this body, that body and every body –
KUBA: Today things have been excellent since the morning, and now I am wondering what is it that ‘I’ am still hiding, or what is it that ‘I’ am still hanging around for. In that ‘I’ have seen that ‘I’ am not genuine and yet some part of ‘me’ wanted to stick around clearly … When ‘I’ consider ‘my’ life, what is left of it and what ‘I’ could possibly be saving ‘myself’ for there is only 1 possibility left it seems, all other things have been resolved. It may also be the reason why ‘I’ have not been able to give all of ‘myself’ to Sonya. And it is related to the work I do as a hen party entertainer and the feelings this brings about. Those events they can get somewhat “wild” and I have always enjoyed the high of such a situation. And yet there is something not quite with all this in that ‘I’ am addicted to the high, ‘I’ prioritise the high over an actual intimacy and furthermore the whole thing it scatters ‘my’ intent to get as close as possible to the person I am closest to – Sonya. It seems there is something here, even just typing the above out and fully admitting it to myself
things have got even more wonderful, reminding me of what I experienced a while back, of the world being as if a
shimmering jewel. VINEETO: All your passions can and need to be garnered in the process of becoming actually free, i.e. all good and bad feelings channelled into felicitous feelings and appreciation, and nothing can be swept under the carpet –
You still seem to be trying the all-or-nothing or the instant-transition approach. An out-from-control freedom is not to be sneezed at, in fact it is delicious. Here is the last paragraph of Geoffrey’s message you quoted above just as a reminder –
 (4 February 2023)
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for your reply, I agree with the main thrust of your message however just with regards to the below: * KUBA: And so at one moment I had 2 words in mind – “myself” and “a self”, I realised immediately that they are referring to 2 vastly different things, one refers to a fact and the other to a belief/ illusion. In that an actually free person might very well use the words “myself” when referencing the very flesh and blood body in question, whereas “a self” is what ‘I’ am as an ontological ‘being’, a ‘thing-in-itself’. And then there was this seeing that this ‘thing-in-itself’ is completely and utterly an illusion, in that not only does it not actually exist, it never existed in the first place. This was not ‘me’ doing the seeing but rather it was happening to ‘me’. VINEETO: Then you attempt to overcome the gulf between the real world and the actual world by convincing yourself that “‘thing-in-itself’ is completely and utterly an illusion”. The reason I wonder if this ‘seeing’ was anything more than a red herring is because until you become actually free ‘you’ are very real, passionately (and cunningly) so. As you contemplated yourself in your next message … KUBA: There was no convincing myself, those 2 words came to mind and then the seeing happened as a result of a fascinated attention – this is the most accurate way I can describe what happened. Perhaps it appears that way as I wrote about what happened after the fact and was trying to make sense of it. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I much appreciate your clarification. I now understand better what happened. I will rephrase my cautionary note then. Self-immolation can not happen from a moment of apperception or from a PCE, or even several PCEs in a row, it is a definite job ‘I’ have to do, as an identity, when all of ‘me’ is in agreement with ‘my’ final demise. Hence my emphasis that ‘I’ need to be an all-inclusive ally in this task – the only and most important task of one’s life. Hence ‘your’ job involves channelling all your affective energy (your libido for instance) into felicitous and innocuous affective energy via naïve enjoyment and abundant appreciation. KUBA: But the main thrust of what you wrote I can see – in that I have been side-stepping those uneasy feelings around intimacy. And an imagined flight into ‘actual intimacy’ is how I can kid myself that something productive is being done, whilst those feelings remain unresolved. So it is more that I need to go “through” rather than “around”. VINEETO: I am very pleased you can see that. It’s also useful to keep in mind to
differentiate between the felicitous feelings and the ‘good’ feelings, which you called “addicted to the
high”
KUBA: I am seeing where the thing with the sex drive is coming
into the picture, it’s because I am unable to be intimate (due to those uneasy feelings that I have been avoiding)
that I go for the high provided by the sex drive instead. VINEETO: It’s fortuitous that you can see that “those uneasy feelings” make
you “go for the high” because you already know what prevents you from being naïvely intimate. Via
actualistic awareness and attentiveness you can choose, each moment, between pursuing the high, or enjoying and
appreciating the sexual intimacy with the fellow human being you are closest to. With a bit of practice and courage
you will find it increasingly easy to choose the latter – it is way, way more delightful, enjoyable, and naively and
exquisitely intimate. When adding the appreciation of being physically intimate, with the person who chooses to spend
her life with you, there is simply no comparison. Perhaps you can refresh your memory from Richard’s description
It’s yours for the taking. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for your reply, I will consider your latest response as well as the previous one. As a side note I wanted to say how much I appreciate the way in which you have been speaking with me over the past year. Of course this process of working out how to arrive at my destiny, it involves stumbling into various dead ends, diversions and even me being outright cunning. But all these times, through hundreds of messages I have experienced nothing but goodwill and more from you. I can’t tell you just how deeply I appreciate this, and it is something I will remember for the rest of my life, just what is possible in terms of relating to one’s fellow human being. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I do appreciate your feedback, primarily for your sake as you seem to be benefitting mightily from appreciating my comment – but also because your perspicacity makes the interaction particularly delightful when facilitating another becoming free from suffering forever. By the way, when I mentioned “cunning” in my message yesterday (“‘you’ are very real, passionately (and cunningly) so”), I said that not as a criticism (because all identities are by instinctual necessity cunning from time to time) but as a warning to what to look out for once you recognize the pattern. You may have already noticed how appreciation is its own reward facilitating and enhancing the enjoyment of what or who you appreciate. After all, to appreciate means 1) recognize the full worth of and It also means adding value to what / who you appreciate. KUBA: I can see that this challenge of being intimate is what I
have been avoiding, there is a joke I saw online that goes something like “men would rather go to war than
therapy” of course neither war nor therapy is needed for the third alternative but this gets the gist of my
resistance. It’s like I found it easier to turn actualism into some battle against dragons and demons as long as I
could avoid this challenge of being intimate. VINEETO: Ha, now that you have understood this (instinctual) pattern you never need to fall into this trap again. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Richard wrote in his journal that it is the man’s identification with authority as the ultimate and the woman’s identification with love as the ultimate which is what stands in the way of intimacy. Indeed I can see this is the case, with authority in my case. In that there is the ‘me’ that ‘I’ assert ‘myself’ to be in relation to ‘others’ – this I can see is an immediate obstacle in the way of intimacy. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed, this is the instinctual and conditioned way – but now you chose to do it the other way, the third alternative. And intimacy is not assertive but inclusive, enticing, friendly, benevolent.
Also, this snippet from Richard’s extensive articles on ‘Peasant Mentality’
At some point you might find it useful to familiarise yourself on the topic, perhaps in instalments, because it relates to most, if not all of one’s social identity issues and thus being “a ‘someone in relation to others’”. Again, a “self-less inclination” in order to imitate the actual does away with the need for being someone, let alone asserting yourself and then it’s much easier to allow naiveté come to the fore which you had been shying away from. KUBA: I can see that in my life I invested into becoming a ‘someone in relation to others’, this is ‘my’ apparent individuality. So initially when allowing intimacy it seems as if I am giving up my very individuality, yet when I look at just what this ‘individuality’ consists of, it is based in separation. Whatever place ‘I’ have carved for ‘myself’ within the hierarchy it is actually what
reinforces ‘me’ as a separative entity and gets in the way of intimacy. And so to consider allowing intimacy it is experienced as if ‘I’ am disarming ‘myself’,
in that ‘I’ will no longer be a ‘someone in particular’ with the power and authority that this might entail. VINEETO: It’s a strange instinctual habit (though unavoidable at first) that when encountering a new possibility of being in a different, more intimate way, one first lists all the things you might loose if you do that, which when you look at those ‘losses’ closely they are not worth anything in regards to what you really want, certainly not the time to worry about it. Whereas you could nourish and foster a naïve excitement of a beneficial discovery operating – think of how young children are eager to learn about the world they find themselves in (until their enthusiasm gets more and more stifled and oppressed. This is the kind of naiveté albeit with adult sensibilities which is the next exploration, and don’t be discouraged when you feel a bit shy or foolish – it’s part of the package – as you quoted Richard in your next message. Just so there is no misunderstanding, lust is not the driver of longing for intimacy –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA:
It’s interesting because I remember a while back Claudiu wrote something which I related to experientially, it was essentially that he is able to go across that whole range of the wide and wondrous path from good, great, excellent and that perhaps something else was needed. And it is interesting because I personally have plenty of experience in what Claudiu wrote, however to tie in Richard’s above quote – I only have plenty of experience where it concerns a progression to an excellence experience. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It’s interesting that you should say that “I only have plenty of experience where it concerns a progression to an excellence experience”. It seems that your focus has primarily been chasing extraordinary experiences, wonderful in themselves, but have not contemplating to up-level your default state of happiness to the next level as Richard explained –
And he explains it in detail in the last article he wrote –
Thus when you start with feeling good as your starting default set-point, already better than the more common feeling-neutral state of most people, you can still up-level it to a default set-point of feeling great, feeling excellent and then, with allowing the hidden-away-during-puberty childhood naïveté, you can make being out-from-control your default feeling state. KUBA: And in fact that was always my primary focus, of course intimacy with others was explored here and there but never as a sole focus. So that when I present this same thing to myself as a question of “do I have plenty of experience travelling the gradations of intimacy all the way to an intimacy experience”? Then the answer is a big fat no. So it seems there is plenty to discover here still. And the benefit of the focus on the “fellow human being”
element is that ‘I’ am not doing it merely for ‘myself’. VINEETO: Well, what exciting and delicious adventure you are embarking upon now that
intimacy has come into focus. Here again you can explore the levelling up in grades of intimacy as detailed elsewhere. There is a whole new ‘world’ of sensuousness and naïve intimacy to discover. Here is my favourite of Richard’s
stories to give you a taste of what is possible. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, I will go in bits because there is a lot in your message which clicks. I really like how you wrote this – “intimacy is not assertive but inclusive, enticing, friendly, benevolent”. And with authority ‘I’ am doing exactly that – asserting ‘myself’. Asserting ‘myself’ immediately cuts the possibility of intimacy at the root, this is exactly the ‘edge’ I was talking about.
This clicked in such an obvious way, I think it’s because of what you wrote about intimacy not being assertive. In that when I allow intimacy with another then I cannot help but take them into consideration, whereas when I assert myself there is an absence of caring and consideration. But I never saw this before, that by asserting myself I am getting in the way of intimacy and therefore peace and harmony. It can be such a small step too that I missed it in the past, where I assert myself and turn the situation into my way vs their way, now it’s a battle and peace and harmony is nowhere to be found. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It’s cute because you yourself gave me the clue –
Remember, whenever you are confronted with two (affective) non-reconcilable alternatives – in this case being assertive or powerless as a male identity – there is always a third alternative which you usually only discover when you are back to feeling good. This particular third alternative now allows you to discover more of imitating actuality – consideration, caring, closeness, naiveté (first experienced as vulnerability) and, of course, sensuousness. As such it is not “my way vs their way” but the way which enables intimacy for both of you. KUBA: I never thought to question assertiveness, in fact I even remember as a kid in school being taught how it is so very important… Also to tie it into Richard’s quote about preference, if I am asserting myself it means that I have already made it serious, which means it is no longer a self-less inclination, it is now a self-centred urge. This is exactly how I have observed conversations turn into arguments too. VINEETO: Yes, you will be surprised how much effect it has on your whole outlook in life when you deliberately and consistently replace any self-centred urge which occurs with what is to happen as just being a preference. This quote from Richard might give you encouragement –
KUBA: I can’t believe I’ve never seen this, that the very action of asserting myself is rotten. VINEETO: It was obviously the perfect time to see it, now that you are ready to put it into action. KUBA: It makes sense now, there is a seriousness and a
forcefulness to it, it has aggression at its root. VINEETO: Indeed and a ‘man’ has to be aggressive or so you are taught. You discovered the way to channel the affective energy of aggression into affective felicitous and innocuous action. It’s all so marvellous. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: It’s interesting that you should say that “I only have plenty of experience where it concerns a progression to an excellence experience”. It seems that your focus has primarily been chasing extraordinary experiences, wonderful in themselves, but have not contemplating to up-level your default state of happiness to the next level as Richard explained –
KUBA: Hmm yes I have to admit that this is the case, even yesterday I was already thinking about this PCE I had 9 months ago where I glimpsed actual Sonya and how utterly extraordinary it was – and I have only just begun looking at intimacy! I can see that it would be quite different if there was not a neutral to go back to. Whereas right now it’s like oscillating between neutral and extraordinary experiences. Like I am running from something… I am running from that in-between where ongoing feeling good can take place. It’s weird, actually I don’t quite know what it is. Even as soon as feeling good happens there is this inclination to take it into something extraordinary as opposed to just letting the feeling good sit there, feeling good. I remember talking with Felix about this kind of oscillating, and it’s weird, it’s almost like being addicted to that up and down motion. Perhaps because if ‘I’ just allow feeling good to happen then ‘I’ have nothing else to do. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You have just revealed why you never want to arrive at your destination. Your concern is that there would be nothing to do but enjoying and appreciating simply being alive – no excitement, no thrill, no ups and downs. Do the variation of oscillating feelings present themselves as the true meaning of life to you? KUBA: I just observed it now, there is feeling good which happens and there is this almost fanatic need to ‘go somewhere with it’, like it has to be the launching pad to the next extraordinary experience, as opposed to just luxuriating in this feeling good for its own sake. Ha so what seems to be the way to go, for now at least – is to just have feeling good without
moving in either direction, this in itself is interesting to allow, not what I would normally do … VINEETO: Again, this is where the quote from Richard I presented in my last message gives a clue in which ‘direction’ to move –
So far you seem to prefer obeying the commands of the self-centred-inspired urge for excitement. Is it a lack of continuous attentiveness or are you perhaps fooling yourself that becoming actually free from the human condition is your number one priority? Whatever your predisposition, as an intelligent human being you can make a determined
choice to give up the addiction
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Thank you for your replies, there is so much here I don’t know where to start! Well maybe with the objection I just had whilst reading the quote about Richard’s innocence and how others would “deposit ordure on it”. I have certainly observed this with the writings of all the actually free people, in that they cannot ‘bite’. I remember even some discussions on here between Srinath and Claudiu, and although there was perhaps aspects of peasant mentality which were displayed in Srinath’s writings there was still no possibility for him to ever ‘bite’. Which of course this is incredible because it means that peace is guaranteed. But something does not sit well with ‘me’ here, in that ‘I’ clearly still have some investment into ‘standing up for myself’, in that it is not just about walking away with the goodies but it is about winning the ego-battle. And it seems it is because I cannot allow the other to continue on with their modus operandi. That yes I understand that I can walk away with the goodies and yet in the process of walking away with the goodies I don’t want to re-affirm the modus operandi of the other as being correct, sensible etc. I will give an example, the other day I was driving out of the area near my house which has a 20mph speed limit, I got to a junction and I looked to see a car quite a distance ahead and so made the judgement to pull out. Now had the car been going at anywhere near 20mph I would have had sufficient space to come out, and yet because they were clearly going way past the limit the car ended up being rather close to me and beeping at me. So this was just a complete reversal of accountability, in that the speeding driver is beeping at someone for a problem that only exists because they are themselves going way past the speed limit. So my response in this situation was to slow down to exactly 20mph so the speeding driver would
be forced to follow me at the correct speed. So it is like trying to change the other, but then on the other hand how
can I allow someone to be rewarded for acting in such a way? VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You are presenting lots of reasons for your righteous indignancy but it is nevertheless an
affective righteous anger. No wonder you hesitate putting everything on a ‘it doesn’t matter’ basis –
righteous anger when slighted is such a self-enhancing feeling. (Btw, the real-world solution of pacifism Here is what you have written to Chrono, only two hours before the above message (2 Oct 2025 18.50) –
What happened to that experience “that everything is already in its rightful place now” and all the other experiences you reported which inform you of the same perfect actuality. It seems that in your steeple-chasing modus operandi for extra-ordinary experiences you omitted to establish a golden clew to pure intent, which could inform and aid you when you are affectively feeling, and justifying, indignation about other people’s wrongs and thus forgetting about your commitment to being happy and harmless, if it was ever there in the first place. Here is how Richard responded to a similar situation –
*
*
Perhaps you can now begin to understand more comprehensively why your identity so strenuously objects to agreeing to ‘your’ demise despite frequent experiential knowledge of the purity and perfection of the actual world. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA:
This explains ‘my’ addiction quite well, the addiction to excitement is because it makes ‘me’ feel ‘alive’, the “thrill of the search” provides the buzz ‘I’ am looking for in order to feel that ‘I’ exist. I can see this, that it is because ‘I’ do not actually exist that ‘I’ need some “synthetic assistance” let’s say, and the powerful buzz of excitement is like the best hit for ‘me’. It is like a direct and raw wave of affect to make ‘me’ feel that ‘I’ am real, and this is very addictive, how on earth to overcome such an addiction. Well they say the first step is admitting that one is addicted so there is that. But then there
is the gratification that the ‘hit’ provides and the fact that ‘I’ enjoy it. It seems it must be about seeing
what this addiction is doing as a totality. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, As an addiction is an acquired habit, often indulged in for many years, to shed this addiction takes a bit more than “seeing what this addiction is doing as a totality” to be done with it once and for all. I suggest patient and diligent application of the actualism method and each time you are tempted by the affective thrills, recognize the pattern and sensibly decline. Given the addictive nature of feelings it requires more an ongoing attention to your feelings and declining consequent behaviour rather than a one-off cognitive turn-about. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Ok so got some movement on this front, at least the indignation part for sure. I realised that what is needed is not merely looking at various concepts such as justice or fairness but an altogether different paradigm, the clue being in the word benevolence. Basically it is about stepping out of that old way altogether, of right and wrong, punishment and justice, score-keeping, expectations etc. With benevolence there is no calculation to decide if one is deserving of beneficence, there is only beneficence, rooted in fellowship regard, and this is just a far better way of living, actually it’s very charming. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Indeed. There is an actual benevolence as well as equity and parity, magnanimity and generosity – nothing is missing when any of the rigid real-world principles and virtuous/ sinful concepts are being abandoned (as long as you live by the legal laws and social protocols of the country you are residing in). Besides –
Isn’t it a wonderful and innocuous aim to become free from animosity and anguish –
KUBA: There is some movement on the thrills part too although it is not resolved. My mum the other day told me of some old stories when I was young and I got some new roller blades. I actually skipped school the following day and rode right up to the school entrance during lunchtime to show off. Now she mentioned this story as part of a point she was making that she has always nurtured my individuality. However I see now that what she was actually nurturing was licentiousness. And indeed I have come to associate license with freedom, and freedom to be ‘me’ as ‘I’ am is nothing at all like what the words actual freedom refer to. So it is like I am untangling this slowly, of this weird association where ‘I’ have been habitually giving free reign to self-centred urges and thinking that this means freedom. But the ‘freedom’ of licentiousness is more like anarchy, and this is where the hook is, ‘I’ get to operate without bounds and there is this thrill associated with it. Actually I should probably clarify that my actual behaviour certainly does not verge into anything like anarchy or antisocial behaviour, but that is what the energy of those thrills is all about. VINEETO: Even though you don’t act it out, this is a good insight to never confuse freedom with licentiousness. Anarchy is born of resentment against the restrictions of one’s social identity (and as such merely the other side of the coin), whereas benevolence and magnanimity inherent to the perfection and purity of the infinite universe, experienced as pure intent, allows one to safely dismantle all the rules and concepts of the social identity, one by one. KUBA: It’s funny because yesterday I wrote that I need to decide what I want to do with my life, but the truth of it is that I already know, actually it’s not even an option that it could go any other way than towards the ending of the human condition. But this modus operandi of giving reign to self-centred urges, this is a major stumbling block in that it is impossible to be happy and harmless whilst it remains. In fact, to link it back to benevolence, this is like trying to mix oil and water, to give reign to self-centred urges and to be benevolent is literally 2 different directions. Yesterday as I was working a hen do this really clicked on a deep level, the group had such a
great time that they were naively jumping about and squealing by the end of it all. And it was so lovely to observe
this, but all throughout this particular job I was well aware of how ‘my’ self-centred urges would only dirty this
and so they played no part. When I got back in my car I could really see that these are 2 different directions to
travel now, that if I want to enable more of what I saw during that job then ‘my’ self-centred urges will have to
be left behind. VINEETO: Excellent – now with this unambiguous clarity you can act, i.e. set out to whittle away at the addiction for excitement, thrill and buzz with an ongoing affective attentiveness, whenever and wherever the temptation arises –
It is such an exciting adventure in itself to be a pioneer in pursuing something so new to human consciousness – what other thrill do you need! Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto,
So this is how I am experiencing this, and in fact this is precisely what happened yesterday. That ‘I’ have set up a base camp somewhere on the periphery of normalcy, periodically ‘I’ will take a daring outing away from the base camp and “up the mountain” let’s say. And what I found yesterday is that there is a tether that connects ‘me’ back to base camp, that deep down ‘I’ know ‘I’ am only going to go so far, scout out the territory from what ‘I’ can see and then return to what appears as the warmth of the known. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Good, you have come to appreciate the limitations of taking special excursions from the “base camp” – what I had called “your steeple chasing modus operandi” in an earlier message –
Perhaps you could consider as your next practical step upgrading to camp 2, the “Advanced Base Camp” in Everest-climbing lingo.
Their final summit push is from Camp 4, being in the “death zone” where bottled oxygen is essential (Uphill Mountaineering For actualists the next step from ‘base camp’ is the “pragmatic, methodological, still-in-control/ same-way-of-being virtual freedom” –
KUBA: I experienced this yesterday as the variations of the fear of extinction, or perhaps of abandoning humanity, something like leaving behind all that is known and familiar and setting off into exile, into an unknown land. But the thing is I have experienced these feelings before, it’s not like any of this was new to me, which means I have travelled this 2 way journey before. VINEETO: So then since yesterday I thought that it is this “tether back to base camp” which needs to be examined, because it will never allow me to set off on the genuine one way journey to ‘my’ extinction. So this is what pricked my ears when you wrote :
Sometimes one needs to go round in circles a few times to realize what is happening, and perhaps this time your realisation is sufficiently firm for taking action and do something practical and down-to-earth about it. Upgrading your present situation to pragmatic virtual freedom will give you a new confidence that being increasingly felicitous and innocuous (happy and harmless) is possible to live every day, in every situation – provided you sincerely and honestly leave no stone untouched. It means trying it out in real life what you often may have only rationally or conceptually understood but not yet applied in everyday living. To add another plug for Virtual Freedom, which ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ lived and documented until the epoch-changing events in 2009/2010, here is how Richard summed it up –
Should you actually decide to do take the path to a pragmatic virtual freedom you might find out,
experientially and over time, that your present assessment of “experientially ‘I’ cannot see yet that this
is the best course of action to take, for everybody concerned” KUBA: Richard summarised the experience of that “tether back to base camp” in his journal (article 9) :
Actually this feeling I experienced yesterday it reminded me of
experiences in the past where a relationship would break down, and there would be this deeply sorrowful feeling, that
this person with whom I have been so close for all those years would now disappear never to be met again – this is
the flavour of that ‘tether’. VINEETO: When you look closely and sincerely, “that ‘tether’” is not just one ‘tether’, it is a whole bundle of tethers, and you cannot cut this bundle in one swoop (else you would have done that by now). This is where the pragmatic virtual freedom comes into play, you examine each tether (whenever it interferes with your being happy and harmless every moment of the day), perhaps multiple times until it dissolves for good, by finding it to be another facet of being ‘self’-centric, ‘me’-enhancing. (Please note, being less ‘self’-centric is not putting the other before oneself but having a preference to imitate actuality rather than ‘me’ being the centre of all thoughts and actions.) In this way ‘I’ become thinner and thinner, more felicitous and more gentle, magnanimous, benevolent, kind, tender and naive until ‘self’-centricity disappears altogether. You might find a whole range of aspects of life where you automatically still follow the old paradigm of principles and concepts which now need re-examining, aspects of your social identity and of dreams of sudden redemption. Remember, actual freedom is new, down-to-earth, non-spiritual and actual. If any your many insights have not changed your day-to-day behaviour, towards yourself and others, they still need to be actualised. And there is not even the excuse that ‘self’-immolation is too much of a tall order because this is not required for living a pragmatic still-in-control virtual freedom.
And –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Richard summarised the experience of that “tether back to base camp” in his journal (article 9) :
The additional aspect of this is something like this : That as ‘humanity’ ‘we’ are all huddled around that fire and suffering, and within that intrinsic suffering ‘we’ have made various bonds which would soothe (but never eliminate) the suffering – that is the bond of ‘humanity’, the relationships of the various identities to each other. And from within that bond, it is experienced as a selfish act, to proceed towards this new land and to leave all those ‘others’ still huddling together in the land of lament. I understand intellectually that this is the exact mistake made by buddha, that ‘he’ would not proceed towards extinction until all ‘others’ were saved and as a result ‘humanity’ has persisted and suffering has persisted. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, What you overlooked in your analysis of ‘humanity’ – Abandoning ‘humanity’ means ‘you’ abandon ‘your’ own humanity, which is ‘you’, the identity, who you have previously recognized as being rotten to the core. It means abandoning ‘your’ social identity, which ties you to everyone else’s appraisal, everyone’s praise and criticism, ‘your’ loyalty to kin, country and class, ‘your’ identity as a man, son, husband, employer, member of class, race, club, religio-spiritual and political identity and all the other groups you feel loyalty, connection and/or obligation to. For instance –
Do you now prefer to retain your aggression, your desire (for the sake of the ‘highs’), your fear and nurture, your territoriality, your sense of belonging and, above all, your social identity? You experience, as a member of ‘humanity’, it being selfish to abandon humanity but you don’t even consider looking at it with pure intent, where the purity and perfection of the actual world is plain to see and yours for the taking – for the benefit of your body, that body and everybody. This is what fear does to you – it defends mischief and misery and clouds your mind. KUBA: But it is this unilateral and extreme action which is required which ‘I’ cannot quite accept, that this is the only way out, the way to end the ‘land of lament’ is for the next and then next identity to become extinct. VINEETO: Are you looking for a new “way out” which leaves the identity intact? KUBA: But it is that final and irreversible abandoning of ‘others’ that ‘I’ am not willing to
contemplate. It still seems selfish to ‘me’, how could ‘I’ leave ‘them’ ‘back there’ suffering. VINEETO: What you are really saying is that you rather remain an identity, rotten to the core, than demonstrating by action that it is possible to live totally free from malice and sorrow, blithe and benign for 24hr a day, every day for the rest of your life, for everyone’s encouragement and confirmation that this is possible. What you are also suggesting is to do nothing about all the wars and murders and child abuse, the lies and hypocrisy and treachery arising from the human condition (which is humanity in action) because it is supposedly “selfish to ‘me’”. “Back there” they are suffering already and there is nothing ‘you’ can do about it because you are, as ‘you’ are, still contributing to their suffering. This is what fear does to you, the fear to do something unchartered, unmapped, unprecedented for ‘you’. You forget what you then “deeply and passionately care about” back in March –
It’s ok, it is a natural reaction when you try to break through before you are ready – though
it means that your arguments don’t make sense. It’s too early to even contemplate it, you could go to the
“advanced base camp” first, then “camp 3”. (Uphill Mountaineering Here is a reminder that ‘your’ morality what is ‘selfish’ is hopelessly skewed (being unselfish is not the same as ‘self’-lessness or non-‘self-centric) –
You can also watch the Out-from-Control video where Richard very clearly says to ‘Vineeto’ “it is selfish to stay”. ‘Vineeto’ had tears in her eyes because the sweetness ‘she’ experienced was extraordinary –
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: It’s ok, it is a natural reaction when you try to break through before you are
ready – though it means that your arguments don’t make sense. It’s too early to even contemplate it, you could
go to the “advanced base camp” first, then “camp 3”. (Uphill Mountaineering VINEETO: Upgrading your present situation to pragmatic virtual freedom will give you a new
confidence that being increasingly felicitous and innocuous (happy and harmless) is possible to live every
day, in every situation – provided you sincerely and honestly leave no stone untouched. It means trying it
out in real life what you often may have only rationally or conceptually understood but not yet applied in everyday living. KUBA: So yes I actually experienced this answer the evening after writing the post VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I am very pleased this is settled for you for now. It is indeed a good recognition that when “increasing felicity and innocuity” is possible for you, not as a high achiever, but a normal human being, then it is also possible for others. KUBA: But your other point is relevant too :
Those daring excursions form “base camp” are too brief, unstable and desperate to allow ‘me’ to contemplate actually doing something about the human condition. So I completely understand your suggestion to proceed towards a pragmatic in-control virtual freedom. Also those excursions from “base camp” they are done by ‘me’ as ‘I’ am now, too mired in the human condition, looking with the eyes of ‘humanity’ rather than felicitous and innocuous eyes. Then ‘I’ can only try to, as you said, proceed towards some escape fantasy whilst keeping ‘myself’ intact. So it is eminently sensible to do something practical and down to earth now, which is to establish feeling good (general sense of well-being) as a bottom line of experiencing in all circumstances and at all times – and it is this bit specifically which I have omitted because I was too busy with the steeple chasing modus operandi. Just as an aside, when I first read that phrase I had to google it just to make sure I get you and as soon as I saw the below image I thought “yup that is spot on”. VINEETO: Now you begin to understand why the term “down to earth” is right under the title on the homepage. It is very significant to take note that an actual freedom from the human condition is no high-flying spiritual escapade. As such your experiencing will eventually be genuinely “in all circumstances and at all times”. It’s great you looked up “steeple casing” – I picked up the term from a reference in an English movie where they alluded to a particular form of obstacle horse racing but church steeples are far more apt as a metaphor, reminiscent also of the art of parkour. KUBA: And the interesting thing is that I already know how to get back to feeling good, it’s
that I have got distracted over and over again by going on the special excursions instead, and in that steeple chasing
modus operandi I would forget about affectively monitoring my mood, in fact even feeling good would become irrelevant
from that place. VINEETO: In due course you will discover that the actualism method is not merely to get back to feeling good, but that by sincerely and thoroughly (if necessary) investigating the triggers you can remove/ dissolve those triggers – be they habits, social identity issues, unhelpful attitude or what not – which are all components of what ‘I’ and ‘me’ consist of and what keeps ‘me’ in place. Doing this ‘I’ get thinner and thinner and less and less substantial, and thus feeling excellent and naiveté start to flourish in a consistent way. KUBA: And the other thing worth adding is that perhaps arriving at an in-control virtual freedom I might decide this is what I want for the rest of my life, and that would be already incredible. But the thing is that steeple chasing modus operandi would not have this. That if it is not ultimate then it is not even worth considering, and yet it is my life I am living. So this is nice to see now also. VINEETO:
KUBA: And the other thing is that I don’t experience the fear of being a fraud, or a
failure etc like I did in the past, and I am no longer afraid of writing to you, and it seems it is because I am
slowly stopping the “fake it till you make it”. So this is all beneficial already. VINEETO: Ha, the instant reward of honesty and sincerity. The more “you make it” the less you need to fear exposure – and all this because you gave up chasing steeples and are coming down to earth. Life is so much simpler and eminently enjoyable this way. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So what I can see already is that all this what I am focusing on now is about increasing my affective set point, and I can see that I have been approaching this the wrong way around in the past. Effectively I can see that there is no pushing required, hence the advice has always been to return to feeling good. It is when feeling good takes care of itself due to habituation that “something more” hoves into view. But if that “something more” is not in view, it’s probably because feeling good is not even habituated yet. And this is where the various excursions would normally begin to take place. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, When you say feeling good is not habituated yet that may well be that there is something brewing in the background which you haven’t acknowledged/ identified yet. For instance –
KUBA: So actually it’s very simple, in that all I have to concern myself with is getting
back to feeling good when feeling good has ceased, and that is very doable for sure and also very rewarding. And then
when that “something more” naturally hoves into view, great, but it happens without any pushing or
desperation at all, and it makes it that much sweeter when it does happen. It’s like “I have all that I need
already and look there is even a little bit more here”. VINEETO: As for enjoying and appreciating feeling good being a backward-oriented approach here is something to think about –
KUBA: Hmm and I wonder if this is why especially for someone with a ‘high achiever’ persona, it can be so tricky to get the simplicity of the method. Because for the high achiever, the hard worker, the dragon slayer etc when things go awry that is apparently a signal to do more, to go forward at all cost, to do the new thing etc. Whereas what is required is actually just to return to where ‘I’ was 5min ago before that thing happened. But it’s this sense of “taking a step back” which is so counterintuitive to such a persona. As in things were evidently going well 5min ago and something happened to cause them to go awry, it seems like ‘I’ need to push forward and yet what ‘I’ actually need to do is simply go back to where ‘I’ was them 5 minutes ago lol. VINEETO: Yes, and for a “high achiever” any other way than ‘his’ way is classified as going backward. Ha, if it wasn’t counterintuitive to ‘you’, the persona, you would have already used the actualism method the way it was intended. Think again – when you pay attention to the aggression inherent in the urge to “push forward” you can see why this cannot be conducive to an ongoing state of feeling good, let alone feeling excellent. The urge to “push forward” means something essential is missing according to ‘you’, is not good enough according to ‘your’ concept of life and you are at loggerheads with yourself and with actuality. Also, it is generally not helpful to create a concept of what virtual freedom means by merely making a carbon copy of what you are doing now, then adding new wall-paper, before you take some practical down-to-earth steps in the new direction. It spoils and distorts the whole adventure of naïvely exploring new territory. KUBA: And of course it is the habituation of feeling good in this manner which will actually
lead to a movement forward, in terms of doing something productive. As well as taking a look at what that thing was
that caused the issues, but only from the position of having already returned to feeling good. VINEETO: You might find this amusing and instructive – there is far more to explore than what you can ascertain by just thinking about it –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Also to keep in line with this conversation would it be correct to say that Richard was able to apply the method in quite a remarkable way, in that he immediately entered an out from control virtual freedom and from what I understand he remained there consistently until the diversion into enlightenment. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Yes, Richard was able to get to an out-from-control virtual freedom very quickly, getting in touch with his buried-since-childhood naiveté by retaining the ‘holiday atmosphere’ after his three-weeks honeymoon holiday –
As you can see, if you read carefully and further on, ‘his’ pure intent to imitate the actual was not only continuously active but also the willingness to make all the changes to ‘his’ attitudes, feelings and consequent behaviours, necessary to make the actual world apparent sooner rather than later. This aspect significant is worth keeping in mind –
According to Rick’s careful time-line analysis KUBA: Whereas for the majority of people it seems to take a route more similar to ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’ in that there is this whole bit that Richard never even went through. Which is the progression from ‘normal’ and towards a pragmatic in control virtual freedom. VINEETO: What Richard had to go through instead, “due to a marked lack of precedence”, was the
pioneering task of extracting himself bit by bit from the institutionalised state of insanity known as spiritual/
mystical enlightenment. It took altogether 11 years. Here I have collected a history of this mammoth enterprise from
Richard’s various reports The aftermath of Richard’s historical breakthrough to an actual freedom is collected here You can watch ‘Peter’s’ video on Virtual Freedom, recording as to what were ‘Peter’s’
own initial obstacles to being happy and harmless. KUBA: The bit that Richard skipped over (somehow :)) is what ‘Peter’ and ‘Vineeto’
pioneered and it seems this is the bit that will be relevant for the majority of people – well certainly me. VINEETO: The “somehow” (which you carelessly brush aside with a laughing face as if it was not worth sincere investigation) is explained in the paragraphs quoted above –
What Peter and Vineeto did is not as relevant for you as you think – they were paving the way to become actually free via not following in Richard’s footsteps, avoiding enlightenment. The looming rock of enlightenment certainly had a great impact on ‘Vineeto’ as well as on ‘Peter’. Whereas you now have no excuse to dither since the Direct Route by-passing enlightenment (which Richard rightly called the “epoch changing opening in human consciousness”) has been made accessible and proved to be successful and easy.
Perhaps you have not read it? It is unfortunate that most of the next generation and the one after is apparently lacking the
naïve enthusiasm and yearning for peace-on-earth, which inspired the first pioneers (you can read more here if you
are interested: The person of Indian birth and upbringing mentioned below certainly took advantage of the newly opened Direct Route tout-de-suite and became free from the instinctual passions and the identity formed thereof without analysis what chances she might have compared to the way the other pioneers achieved an actual freedom. She just went ahead and did it –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: What I do not see yet, is quite how to make away with those persistently entrenched
themes still. And I am not sure if it is that they are actually difficult to remove or more because I simply cannot
and will not contemplate a life of ongoing and consistent happiness and harmlessness. It’s like I have planted a
flag in a 60/40 arrangement and the 23h 59m a day arrangement seems too much to consider. KUBA: Hmm ok I see the bottom line of this is that I am
not willing to change myself. This makes a lot of sense, why I would rather go on excursions, because then I get to
remain intact as I am now and fool myself into an escape fantasy. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, As recent experience has shown that after a rash comment you tend to amend or even retract you instant reaction, so I’ll wait for a more considered response. Here is what Richard wrote to a correspondent who had been persistently unwilling to change himself –
Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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