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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Sonya on Discuss Actualism Forum
VINEETO: Ha, so much better that you started to think for yourself and experientially explore for yourself. SONYA: Yes, definitely. Of course I couldn’t grasp it before, I was just blindly trying to imitate Kuba. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Naturally you did that, after all you had to first discover, and then question, that you did
everything to stay “connected” to Kuba
Now, having discovered how delightful it is to stand on your own two feet and think for yourself, you might be more easily be able to experience intimacy with the fellow human being you share your life with. * VINEETO: Perhaps not being burdened by too many “lofty thoughts” and “psychic adumbrations” in the first place gives you an advantage so you can concentrate on the “profound feelings” whenever they get in the way of enjoyment and appreciation. SONYA: Hahah, Kuba likes to joke about how all that’s going on in my head are ponies and rainbows. VINEETO: Ha, to each their own. You follow what you determine is adult sensibility and
non-sophistication. Being foolish is the worst people can say about you when you play the game of naïvely playing
together and being happy and harmless rather than engage is useless and harmful power-battles – so you know
that you are not foolish. And the pioneer, which you are by living the third alternative, are bound not to rely on
the judgement of their peers who follow the tried and failed route. (see images As I wrote to Chrono the other day –
* VINEETO: Indeed, being kind to yourself, down-to-earth and unsophisticated you can do one step at a time and with each success you become more confident that living as happy and harmless as possible is doable and fruitful – and what is more, you keep on enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive while doing it. SONYA: Yes, this is really helpful to keep in mind. I
appreciate how as a younger woman it is easier or more socially acceptable to be this way. However, I am intrigued
sometimes when I get called “simple minded” because I’m happy at work or appreciating the vibrant green
of my iced matcha latte. Yet, everyone benefits from me choosing to be this way. Being happy and harmless seems
to not mix well with being a “mature adult”. I’m starting to see how being sophisticated is not in line
with enjoy and appreciating. It definitely gives off an exclusive vibe, unattainable, separate. VINEETO: Yes, it is the old ‘us’ vs ‘them’, and you are apparently in the minority because not many people dare to be naïve. It is your choice how you want to live your life, you reap the benefits and, as you observed, others benefit too from your felicitous and innocuous infectious vibes. SONYA: Just to add, it also doesn’t mean that I am to be like
an immature child either. I always liked the phrase “childlike wonder… with adult sensibilities”. VINEETO: It is indeed very helpful to keep, and develop, your “adult sensibilities” together with the “childlike wonder”. Even in the often vicious battle of survival both amongst animals and humans, it is not the strongest which survives but the ‘fittest’.
And here is a longer explication of the same topic with listing all the various thought-processes an intelligent human can make use of –
Enjoy your childlike wonder with adult sensibilities.
SONYA: So, a while ago I wrote about feeling connected in the nurturing sense. I noticed I had the tendency to relate to people in a nurturing way. I have been noticing lately when I begin to do that and to nip it in the bud. I notice the good feelings come up, and the difference between a preference and a good feeling. For example, my brother in law often comes back to our house for a week every 2 weeks or so. I noticed he tends not to have much time to cook himself dinner so I thought it would make more sense for him to join in on our dinners whenever he’d like. There was no nurturing feelings come up from this, it was a clean offer in which he could accept or decline as he pleases. There is no involvement from ‘me’ looking for the good feelings from nurture and on the opposite no bad feelings if he decides to decline my offer. So this has been some nice progress. What I seem to still be stuck on, and this became startling clear last night, is that I am still feeling connected to Kuba in some other way. I am so easily and greatly effected by his vibe towards me. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, You start by saying you feel connected but what this ‘connection’ is comprised of that you want his approval – and when his mood/ vibes indicate he does not approve of you in certain situations, you are not feeling good. This quote from Richard might be informative –
In other words, the identity, being a contingent ‘being’, dependant on the confirmation of others to confirm ‘your’ existence is seeking this confirmation primarily from your live-in partner and therefore how you feel is dependent on this (positive) confirmation. As such you can nip in the bud the relating to people in a nurturing way but unless you understand the pattern of your dependency you only shift the process of being acknowledged/ confirmed from one person to the other. Nipping in the bud only works when you have already understood the underlying cause in each situation, in this case dependency. Here is something ‘Vineeto’ wrote about gaining more and more autonomy –
The whole section is worth reading. And another piece about autonomy instead of ‘being authentic’ –
SONYA: I think it’s still the authority. I still relate to
him in that sense and I have become entirely sick of it. How have I given up my own autonomy so easily to someone who
is also another feeling being capable of being angry, lashing out etc. and not expecting him to do so? I see that I
have put my life in his hands (whether he wanted it or not) trusting and expecting him to be gentle and kind 24/7.
How unfair and how silly. As I am writing this it’s becoming more clear why I am so effected by his vibe towards
me, I put how I am feeling into his hands, completely at his mercy to do with as he pleases. I have not taken control
of my own life in that sense so when he does lash out I feel utterly helpless and it feels like the rug is ripped out
from under my feet and I there is no continuing. All very dramatic and world ending. Maybe it won’t be so intense
and all consuming if I didn’t put my life in his hands.
VINEETO: Well, you don’t have much choice – about 99.9% of human beings are feeling
beings with exactly the same predicament, including yourself. To blame the other never ever solves the problem, it
only compounds it. Now that you noticed and acknowledged that you put your life and happiness in his hands (which is
what love does), you can take your life into your own hands and be fully responsible for your own happiness and
harmlessness, whatever the circumstances. That’s what actualism means, dedicate your life to be happy and harmless,
eventually unconditionally so. And that is what you both set out to do at the start of your acquaintance, live
together in peace and harmony, each cleaning themselves up to be able to do that. The latest spat between you and
Kuba (here How about eradicating full-blown anger as Richard described here SONYA: [Addendum]: It’s scary for me to contemplate doing
this as it means severing our ‘relationship’. Of course, logically I can see the benefits and sense in it but to
actually see it, want it completely 100%, and do it is a different action. VINEETO: I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do it change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy.
SONYA: Hi Vineeto, Thanks for your reply, things have settled down and we have managed to enjoy our weekend with my friend staying over. Now that the dust has settled, I’m starting to see things a little clearer without the cloud of frustration/ anger/ sadness. This has given me quite a bit to think about. I look forward to exploring what’s going on. I can tell there is definitely an element of an unsure little girl hiding behind his legs, waiting for approval, checking with him to ensure everything is safe. Of course, if he gets upset with me, I feel “told off”, to the point of in a heated moment, “sticking to my guns” to blame him for my upset. In the moment I needed him to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Good. Now that you see it a bit clearer, can you understand that someone has to stop the tit-for-tat blame-game if you both want to live in peace and harmony? And because the only person you can change is yourself – the buck can stop with you, if you choose to. So instead of aiming your actions “to acknowledge the hurt so I feel safe to go back hiding behind him again” you have the choice “in a heated moment” to unilaterally keep your hands in your pocket, sit quietly until you cooled off and feel good again. It may seem scary at first but if you succeed not to suppress or express your “frustration/ anger/ sadness” in that “heated moment” you will experience your own autonomy coming to the fore. Doing this you get to experience the confidence that you can indeed deal with your emotions in a constructive and harmless way. And if you succeed once, you know you can do it next time as well. And what a joy when you dealt with your emotions to then share your success and your insights with him. * VINEETO: I am not sure what you mean by “severing our ‘relationship’” – the way you phrased it sounds rather radical as in moving out, born of frustration. What you ideally want to do is change the way you are relating from a dependant, love-based possessive-demanding relating to a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy. SONYA: Yes, I can see why that sounds rather radical. I admit I was still feeling rather raw whilst writing this. I more so meant the “relationship” I have in my head, the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real. The relationship in which I have decided my partner’s role is a provider/ protecter or can very quickly switch to aggressor/ villein. I hope that is a bit more clear. I’d very much like to end that and meet the actual Kuba. VINEETO: This is certainly more clear, and again, the onus is on you to change this kind of relationship, unilaterally. After all, as you said “the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real” and therefore you can choose to aim for a different kind of relationship. You can, gradually, stand on your own two feet, don’t expect to be protected and provided for and can relate with your partner in a more amicable basis. I remember we talked about a feeling being is a “persona” –
You had said in reply –
VINEETO: Well, you obviously decided that you no longer like being this chosen persona because you found it counterproductive. With this realisation you can now begin to explore and dismantle all the different aspects of what this ‘persona’ of Sonya consists of, in your own good time, and abandon whatever aspect you no longer find conducive to living in peace and harmony. Some aspects can be abandoned right away, others will need some insightful contemplation and courage to put into action. You will be surprised, that in the end all layers of one’s social identity, and expressions of the instinctual passions, are standing in the way of peace and harmony and thus enjoying and appreciating being alive. The more sincere (less of a persona) you become the better the chance to “meet the actual Kuba”.
SONYA: Just been slowly reading this over and over again as each time something clicks but it’s interesting how it’s all slowly revealing itself. VINEETO: Don’t be discouraged by the slowness of things becoming more clear. Actual freedom is radical, it’s neither taught in school are at home, it entirely new. And it is very helpful to read over a piece of writing several times, so that your consciousness (your brain in action) can digest the various ramifications of what is being written. SONYA: For the past 5 or so years I have been ignoring that I have in fact been in love, not to the “normal” extent as it hasn’t been nurtured but I have nevertheless allowed myself to fall in love. I’ve always known that of course there was loving feelings there but I was never able to admit to myself that I have fallen in love and dismissing it as “loving feelings” which didn’t need to be looked at. I’ve fully become entangled in it. The aim was never to fall in love but I seem to have ended up here anyways. I can begin to see it now, the authority, dependency, nurturing. It’s all because I have fallen in love. VINEETO: This is an excellent discovery and good news – to finally have the appropriate label for the conglomerate of feelings (good and bad feelings) that you experienced “for the past 5 or so years”. It is easy, especially when familiar with actualism writings to kid oneself that one is forewarned and forearmed. And yet love itself is a strong instinctual and social conditioning that because of being forewarned love can easily go unnoticed. In that case only rigorous sincerity will bring it out in the open. Usually the negative side-effects of love such as possessiveness and jealousy, wanting to change the other according to one’s own image and similar domineering feelings and behaviour finally give it away. SONYA: I mean, of course merely saying I don’t want to be in
love or logical not seeing the sense in it is not enough and actually experiencing it myself, looking at it,
exploring it and actually knowing fully to my bones that I don’t want it never happened. I never found out
experientially that this is not the path I want to go down. It feels like a weight lifting off my shoulders finally
realising and admitting this, it explains the intense bad feelings (the other side of love) whenever the good
feelings of love weren’t reciprocated. I’ve been repressing, ignoring, brushing it under the rug all this time. VINEETO: This is a great description of what being in love entails and already knowing this much about yourself will help you to extricate yourself from the trap of love. I guess you won’t get much support from your girlfriends in this endeavour! You are to entirely rely on your own determination and experiential expertise in this exciting adventure. However, you are not on your own –
I wish you all the success and fun for this great adventure.
VINEETO: Good. Now that you see it a bit clearer, can you understand that someone has to stop the tit-for-tat blame-game if you both want to live in peace and harmony? And because the only person you can change is yourself – the buck can stop with you, if you choose to. SONYA: Yes, I actually noticed when I began to blame the other day. It was actually the time that Kuba wrote about when the drink was accidentally knocked over the back of the sofa. He went to blame and I went to blame right back. I quickly noticed there was the anxiety and fear of punishment that was bubbling up which propelled me to retaliate. When I noticed I was doing the tit for tat blame game again I shut-up and consciously decided to stop right then and there. I saw there was no point, and that actually there was no punishment that was coming so why am I continuing on this game? There was still tension as we both did still start the game but it dissipated quickly, luckily for my friend who was sat in the room with us and got slightly caught in the cross fire. VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Ah, you understood the gist of the blaming game, and already put into action to stop it. It won’t take long to extinguish this unhealthy (silly) habit when you keep paying attention to how you feel. * VINEETO: This is certainly more clear, and again, the onus is on you to change this kind of relationship, unilaterally. After all, as you said “the one that doesn’t actually exist but I feel it to be real” and therefore you can choose to aim for a different kind of relationship. You can, gradually, stand on your own two feet, don’t expect to be protected and provided for and can relate with your partner in a more amicable basis. SONYA: Over the past two days there has been an excitement and anxiety as I’ve been contemplating actually standing on my own two feet. I feel as if I have stepped away from hiding behind Kuba but not quite yet taken the step further to stand entirely on my own two feet. Almost like I’m staying very close, just in case I need to dart back to the “safety”. VINEETO: This is a big change and you can be patient with yourself. Each time you notice you are ‘hiding’ you consider if it’s worthwhile to step out into the open instead. The more often you do it the more confidence you gain. It’s fun, and the thrill of doing something daring adds to the adventure. * VINEETO: This is an excellent discovery and good news – to finally have the appropriate label for the conglomerate of feelings (good and bad feelings) that you experienced “for the past 5 or so years”. It is easy, especially when familiar with actualism writings to kid oneself that one is forewarned and forearmed. And yet love itself is a strong instinctual and social conditioning that because of being forewarned love can easily go unnoticed. In that case only rigorous sincerity will bring it out in the open. Usually the negative side-effects of love such as possessiveness and jealousy, wanting to change the other according to one’s own image and similar domineering feelings and behaviour finally give it away. SONYA: I’ve been starting to notice and pick up on the loving
feelings that come up. Noticing the good feelings of love have been quite eye-opening and being able to pick up on
the behaviour I display to chase those good feelings. This has also led me to notice the bad feelings that come into
play very quickly when the good feelings aren’t nurtured. Yesterday, Kuba said jokingly “why are you so far
away from me, you don’t like me anymore”. Although he was joking, I immediately felt responsible for making
him feel better, I felt the urge to immediately go comfort him and prove to him that of course I still like him so I
felt secure again and resentment then followed quickly. Funny how I’ve been blind to it for so long. VINEETO: Well, Sonya, you have discovered three big aspects of your ‘persona’, which have the potential to now make your life more felicitous and innocuous. Isn’t it amazing how simply paying attention to how you experience life with intent uncover the secrets preventing you from enjoying and appreciating being here produce so many excellent results? I am looking forward to more reports of your success.
SONYA: Everything has been pretty steady lately, I’ve
started to notice a few aspects in my life and interactions where love has crept in. For example, Kuba has been
enjoying playing his video game, during the week I would come home and notice a feeling of disappointment come up to
see him absorbed in his game. I noticed that what I was wanting after coming home, was to get the good feelings of a
loving connection from him after not seeing him all day, and of course as soon as that wasn’t received it evolved
to the bad feeling. Well, rather then mope about, I decided that I can, in fact, have a great time doing something
that I wanted to do rather than wait around to receive some loving feelings, which would ultimately end in
disappointment. So, I decided to go give Poncho a bath instead (visual reference below) VINEETO: Hi Sonya, Are you aware that you have just transferred those “loving good feelings” to your dog who was at the time more receptive than Kuba? I am sure you will work out over time how you can relate in a more naïve intimacy-based relating – from fellow human being to fellow human being, who both basically share the same aim – to live together in peace and harmony, and revel in the delights of enjoying each other’s company and shared intimacy – once he takes a break from his game, that is. SONYA: I used to always say that I looked forward to coming
home from work and seeing Kuba, I now realise that what I was looking forward to was to receive the loving good feelings. VINEETO: A good observation, and it’s worthwhile to more and more replace that expectation “to receive the loving good feelings” with autonomy, which enables a non-possessive intimate relating and appreciation – togetherness and closeness, without expectation or blame, simply enjoying and appreciating as intimately as possible, a fellow human being’s company.
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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