|
(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Selected Correspondence ‘Self’-Immolation
KUBA: What a fascinating experience I just had! I can’t sleep now following it so I thought I might as well write about it. So I was in that half-asleep state in bed about 15min ago and I was enjoying a very fascinating
journey through the psyche. It was as if ‘I’ was taken on a journey through the entirety of ‘my’ life but the
key aspect was that it was clear that ‘I’ have been nothing but a marionette pulled by the strings of
conditioning. It was a very fun journey and ‘I’ was definitely enjoying it in a fascinated way. And so as ‘I’ was moving through the journey ‘I’ eventually got to the very start of it all, the beginning – ‘I’ was astounded to find no-one at all. There was no god, no ‘higher intelligence’, no ultimate meaning etc. What ‘I’ discovered is perfectly described by the words – blind nature. In that indeed the conditioning is pulling on the marionette and yet there is ‘noone’ or ‘nothing’ ‘behind it all’ – it is all simply a set of blind instinctual patterns. Now this might not seem as big as I initially made it out. But the ramifications are huge! It means that there is absolutely no purpose or meaning at all to suffering, it means that all those people who suffered or sacrificed or died for any of the causes which flow from the conditioning – it all happened for absolutely nothing at all. It means that no matter how noble or sophisticated the various belief systems, it is all over absolutely nothing at all. ‘I’ still remember the surprise that ‘I’ experienced, to find ‘noone/ nothing’ at
all ‘behind it all’, simply a set of blind instinctual patterns – of course ‘humanity’ has turned these
into something rather romantic and made a ginormous hoo-ha out of it all, and yet it is all over absolutely nothing,
no meaning or purpose ‘behind it’ at all. Isn’t this a great discovery! This apperceptive insight lived experientially is the end of believing any and all principles and concepts, axioms and ideals, tenets and illusions (as long as you comply with the legal laws and observe the social protocols). Now there is nothing (credible) in the way to altruistically allow, with supreme confidence, the very core of ‘being’ itself – the selfish instinct for individual survival – to disappear into the same “‘nothing’ ‘behind it all’”. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: When everything is swept out from under the carpet, there is nothing left to hide, to defend, to hold precious, or to fear. Simply stillness – the stillness of infinite space and eternal time. KUBA: Yes I see this now, it makes clear why ‘I’ was running into that “invisible wall” over and over in an attempt to ‘go somewhere’, it is ‘me’ trying to take ‘myself’ into actuality. This was the point which took the longest to sink in, that ‘I’ do not ‘go somewhere’, ‘I’ stay still until ‘my’ full exposure happens, it is when ‘I’ become extinct that there is only the stillness left, the destination was here all along. VINEETO: Indeed – it is impossible to imagine how one’s own extinction will happen – it is unimaginable. KUBA: That apperceptive seeing which took place last night is “swishing around” currently, it was a big one! It seems that currently it is still at a slight distance from ‘me’, in that there is the seeing just ‘over there’ and then there is ‘me’ as ‘I’ am. What I mean is that it has not fully and completely sunk in that this “crude and blind instinctual programming” is ‘me’ as ‘I’ am. It is like this slightest distancing which allows ‘me’ to remain. But it seems like ‘I’ cannot distance ‘myself’ for long, this is what ‘I’ mean by this seeing “swishing around”. Or I guess it is more accurate to say that ‘I’ have turned the apperceptive seeing into a realisation, hence the distance and the “swishing around”. VINEETO: That’s why I said “this apperceptive insight lived experientially” KUBA: What I do see though, and this is also big, is that ‘I’
don’t have to push towards ‘my’ self-immolation, and neither is it something ‘I’ do, it is ‘my’ full
exposure that makes it inevitable. And now ‘I’ am willing to be exposed, because ‘I’ have seen the very core
of ‘me’. There is confidence that it cannot go wrong, that it is ultimately safe for ‘me’ to be exposed, and
for this exposure to end ‘me’. VINEETO: Now you know experientially what Richard was talking about –
KUBA: There is something that I keep getting a glimpse of and I wonder if this is more of ‘me’ trying to take ‘myself’ into actuality or if it is genuine, it seems to me to be the latter. It reminds me of what Srinath wrote on this forum some time ago, to paraphrase it was that when he became actually free it was akin to one of those optical illusion images – where for example one only sees a witch until something shifts and only a rabbit is seen. Except that in this case there would be no way at all to ever see the witch again. This seems to be the “seamless transition” aspect, it doesn’t mean that it is not a total end for ‘me’, because it is, it’s not that ‘I’ am seeing life in a different manner. It’s more that in an instant and with no transition period ‘I’ become extinct and actuality becomes apparent, then it is known with absolute certainty that only actuality genuinely exists, that ‘I’ was never genuine. These glimpses that I keep getting are along these lines, that it is very very close and it can certainly happen now, there is nothing of substance that would prevent such a thing from happening. Also I can see that indeed it is the end for ‘me’ and yet it is completely safe. It is safe because of this aspect of actuality being instantaneously revealed to be already always here now. VINEETO: Ha, the only comment I will make is that you have a playful propensity to look around the next corner before you turn the corner. I think they are inventing telescopes for that. KUBA: So these glimpses
they are providing ‘me’ with utmost confidence to proceed towards ‘my’ extinction. As Richard said it cannot
be a 100% certainty until it clicks into place but it is a supreme confidence (as far as ‘I’ can have) in that it
is seen that a world exists after ‘my’ demise. VINEETO: I enjoy your “utmost confidence” as much as you do. All you have left to do now is to enjoy and appreciate. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Some more wonderful experiences are going on this morning, I woke up and experienced that flavour of the burden of ‘being’, of existing across the past – present – future as an identity, of existing in a cell of ‘my’ own making, of living out the “story of ‘my’ life”. But now I can see that there is an alternative, that ‘I’ can cease ‘being’, that ‘I’ don’t have to carry that burden anymore, it’s so simple! Because only ‘I’ exist across the past – present – future, this flesh and blood body does not, it is not coming from anywhere or going somewhere, it only exists here where this moment is happening, and it is the doing of what is happening. Before there was always this sense that ‘I’ had to muster a wanting to cease ‘being’, perhaps to overcome the strength of ‘my’ survival instincts, there was some kind of an internal struggle going on, with the wanting to cease ‘being’ on one hand and the drive to survive at all cost on the other. But this morning I am solidly experiencing that ‘I’ do indeed want to cease ‘being’, not in a sense of mustering anything, rather that it is simply what ‘I’ want. It is the end of all struggle, of all suffering, of all sorrow and malice. ‘I’ realise that ‘I’ am happy to give up the “story of ‘my’ life”, that it is not worth keeping anymore. It only ever brought pain and conflict. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is a great way of phrasing it – ‘I’ am nothing other than “the “story of
‘my’ life””, nothing more substantial than a (highly passionate) story. Of course, this “story”
is held in place by all the genetically inherited instinctual passions and the culturally increated
And with “the “story of ‘my’ life”” seen as insubstantial the internal struggle ceases as a result of the matter-of-fact recognition, seeing the fact, and then it simply makes sense to cease ‘being’. No struggle, no fear, no resistance. Actuality prevails over narrative – it’s a simple as that. As Geoffrey said –
KUBA: But what I am constantly amazed by is that the destination is right under my nose, this body is already here, everything is already in place, ‘I’ simply have to disappear. VINEETO: Yes, and that is the only reason why you can even contemplate to cease ‘being’ as a solution recognising that “‘being’ is suffering”, in fact why you are able to even fully acknowledge this – because of the supreme confidence that there is a much, much better alternative. And that fact in itself is so overwhelmingly amazing, to sweetly encouraging for those who are cognisant of the actual alternative. KUBA: As I was contemplating all this a few minutes ago I saw the ‘imprint’ that is ‘me’, that this will be erased. This ‘imprint’ of ‘being’ it is painful in itself somehow, that as long as ‘I’ am ‘being’ ‘I’ will suffer. It’s fascinating why this is so? Why is it that ‘being’ is suffering? I saw it just a moment ago ‘I’ was sat right there and seen to be nothing but suffering. That the very flavour of ‘being’ is suffering. ‘I’ am like a hot coal that is tightly grasped for no good reason at all. And this sense that the hot coal must be grasped, it is like a commandment – the very thrust of the survival instincts and also reinforced by society. This commandment carries this seemingly all powerful authority, that it is the 1 thing ‘I’ am never ever allowed to go against. But then I have already seen ‘behind the curtains’ of both blind nature and society, this authority has been exposed for a furphy. VINEETO: Indeed, and this imperative, this ‘self’-survival mechanism is operating for everyone – until someone, anyone, looks “behind the curtains” and finds out, for a fact, that ‘me’ is only a narrative, a fraud, an impostor. It’s a wondrous adventure to do that. KUBA: Hehe there is a conversation which Vineeto quoted a while back which just popped into my mind :
So yes I can see this now, there is the loyalty to the human
constitution which in itself is no little thing to crack, and yet there is the loyalty to the human condition (to
suffering) which does make the prior look like chicken-feed. VINEETO: Oh yes, ‘Vineeto’ never forgot that conversation where Richard was actually caring in telling ‘her’ from the start what was required and that it would be much bigger than the “chicken-feed” of abandoning loyalty. It nevertheless took ‘her’ another 10 years and 9 weeks to “crack that code”, like you are about to do, but one thing ‘she’ knew all the way that ‘she’ would never ‘do a Devika’, i.e. give up. What a grand adventure! Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: What about pure intent – do you experience the perfection of infinitude, the overarching benignity and benevolence emanating from the purity of the stillness beckoning you – or is your focus after all this still zeroed in on ‘you’ and ‘your’ fading story? You said yesterday –
Can it be that presently ‘you’ are not ready yet to “give up” on ‘you’? Yet here is what you said six days ago –
Perhaps you are trying to employ the same techniques as those which got you to this point, deliberating and doubting, weighing the evidence, searching for something you have overlooked … just to avoid taking “that last step into the unknown” – which is to agree to cheerfully and gaily, acquiesce altruistically and willingly, curiously and confidently allow ‘your’ demise to happen, knowing with superb inevitability that the resulting actual innocence will be for the benefit of all. In other words, “that last step” is not of your doing, it is giving the permission to let it happen (by not interfering one way or the other). Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Wow Vineeto your post… it’s like every word landed bullseye on the intended target, which is ‘me’. (…) There is stillness all around, the experience of it is amplified now as all that other ‘noise’ cleared away. (…) It is very wonderful to consider that all ‘I’ have left to do is to allow the universe to
disappear ‘me’. ‘I’ don’t resist it anymore, in fact it is so very peaceful for ‘me’ right now. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I appreciate you understand – and the fact you report the “stillness all around” is confirmation that you do. Appreciate this “stillness all around” as much as you can and then some more, it’s the most wonderful, mirificent and magically sweet way of experiencing being alive. KUBA: But the one thing which I hadn’t quite put together is
that giving permission is by not interfering in one way or another. Perhaps it is that ‘I’ still believe that ‘I’
am required to crack the code. VINEETO: Ha, it’s always the hardest thing to acknowledge that ‘I’ am redundant, even though you experientially and apperceptively know that ‘you’ are. ‘You’ have done your job and have done it well, ‘you’ can contentedly retire having earned ‘your’ longed-for oblivion. Cheers Vineeto
JESUSCARLOS: It’s Friday afternoon, and my partner is encouraged to give me feedback on my way of being and acting over the past week. Above all, she emphasizes that I’m like “absent”. Absorbed in my worries, too busy with my phone, not here and now. She rightly resents this. I receive it with discomfort but at the same time with openness, sticking to the facts: she’s right. It’s Saturday, and since the day before, I’ve tried to abandon my worries and be here, with attentiveness. We hike through the forest until we reach a waterfall at the far end. We’re alone. After a period of relaxation, a moment of pure awareness occurs. I marvel at the stillness of the rock while the majestic curtain of water falls steadily. I mention this to her, and she makes a humorous comment that makes us laugh for a while. “Yes, it’s very still, but the water is also damaging it slowly.” We called her thought the “anti-zen” thought of doom. All this reminds me that perfection comes with a high dose of humour. It’s Sunday and we’re at the cinema. We went to see the new “Dracula”. Two-thirds of the way through the film, I realize I’m feeling fear. But it has nothing to do with the film. Upon closer inspection, I realize it’s almost a panic attack. I think that if this feeling increases, I’ll either vomit, or run, or throw myself on the floor. But as best I can, I keep my hands in my pockets. I observe. Thoughts come and go, all of them doubts, fears, regarding actual freedom. What if this is just another manipulation? What if it’s an algorithm to program humans to no longer question anything and conform to the current regime? What if I become an inert robot by taking that step? What if Vineeto is actually an agent of the Matrix? (that film had a deep impact on me in my youth), etc. VINEETO: Hi Jesus Carlos, I understand your fear but you are misled by your feelings. About three years before becoming free ‘Vineeto’ expressed a similar sentiment when ‘she’ said to Richard, “to me you represent death”. Richard laughed and then said “I’m just a bloke”. Today I can say the same thing to you – I am just an old woman. As you said above – “perfection comes with a high dose of humour”. JESUSCARLOS: I clearly realize that these thoughts arise from an emotional reaction to the realization that my defence mechanisms cause suffering and aren’t truly necessary (Saturday’s EE/PCE realization). And I can clearly see that they are a core part of my identity, but that eliminating them means eliminating all of me; just one part can’t go. This insight increases my fear, almost to the point of terror. “My feelings are me, and I am my feelings”; “becoming my own best friend in this, isn’t something imposed on me, it’s something I choose for myself”; “This is for the good of humanity, it’s for its good, and for all the others I affect with my interactions, my absences”; “what is known is uncertain, uncertainty is the necessary step toward finding a solution”; “stick to the facts. What do the facts say? Don’t my interactions, my decisions, my will to fully be here improve when I really enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive?” This last thought is the one that has the greatest impact on overcoming fear (because is not only a thought, is a connection with pure intent). I begin to experience a reduction of fear, recognizing that through facts, and not through my beliefs or daydreams, there is a clear and evident truth (paraphrasing René Descartes). The concrete experience of what is truly beneficial is the guide on this wide and wonderful path. Little by little, terror is replaced by the sweetness of this realization, which also awakens memories of my life in which I have always been searching for the final solution to my suffering. VINEETO: Have you ever thought that it might be the other way round, that your fear is created by ‘me’ wanting to force ‘me’ to do something ‘I’ am not ready to voluntarily do? In this case this is not pure intent informing you but passions pitched against each other in order to keep ‘me’ in existence. JESUSCARLOS: At this point, the film’s plot (spoiler alert) connects with the emotional thread of my feelings and thoughts, and the acceptance of the main character’s death as an altruistic decision that frees others from his own burden makes even more sense. I’m amazed by this synchronicity. VINEETO: I don’t know the film but this is not synchronicity but real-world sentimental fantasy for bitter-sweet feel-good effect. JESUSCARLOS: The film ends. I’m not in a PCE, but in a kind of IE/EE, experiencing a lot of sweetness and intimacy. And I tell my partner what happened. Tears run. And I’m incredibly grateful with her for having the courage to tell me what she’d been noticing these past few days about my way of withdrawing from being here, as a defence mechanism. And that reminded me that what is the most important for me is to truly give all of myself to her, and to the rest of living human bodies. VINEETO: As you describe well, the effect of this fantasy is that you feel grateful, not appreciative, towards your partner – which is a ‘good’ feeling not a felicitous/ innocuous feeling. You would be misleading yourself to compare that to pure intent and your aim to altruistically ‘self’-immolate for the benefit of this body (which does not die when ‘I’ become extinct), that body and every body. JESUSCARLOS: I see what happened as a positive sign of progress,
a kind of preparation for facing/ understanding that wall of fear behind which freedom could lie. At least a virtual
one. VINEETO: Now to the main reason I am replying to your post – “understanding that wall of fear”. While one does experience fear in the process of becoming free, for instance, when there is resistance to admit to this or that aspect of the identity, and one certainly needs daring to persist, it is nevertheless important to understand that it is always a self-induced suffering. ‘I’ am feeding the fear, either by fighting against it or by wanting to have something immediately which needs a gentler more friendly approach, especially when it comes to ‘my’ extinction. Stand back and have a chuckle about the antics ‘I’ get up to and get back to feeling good. Perhaps the following quote will make things clearer regarding “that wall of fear” –
The whole correspondence from 25 May 2015 is well-worth reading from the beginning because it drives the point home even more. As you might have gathered by now, when you are a friend to yourself and look at/ sort out the various obstacles to being happy and harmless, enjoying and appreciating each moment of being alive, when you become more and more naïve, like yourself and others, then you can follow the wide and wondrous path of felicitous discoveries and appreciative amazement, then there is no need to get lost in the scary thicket of self-created fear, sorrow and bitter-sweet fantasy. Then, following pure intent, one day the choice is so crystal-clear and irresistibly attractive, then the facts speak for themselves and inevitably trigger ‘my’ permission to the only obvious action which is not of ‘my’ doing. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: This quote from Richard has been on my mind, indeed it describes the situation well for ‘me’. I remember what ‘I’ was like 10 years ago and ‘I’ would have given anything to experience life in the manner that ‘I’ do now. And yet ‘I’ know that it is still second best, the thing is the first place is not for ‘me’! So it is that either ‘I’ would continue to live the second best or ‘I’ give up all of ‘myself’ so that this body, that body and everybody can live the first place. It’s not ‘me’ giving up second place so that ‘I’ can have the first place, rather it is ‘me’ giving up the best that ‘I’ can have for something infinitely better for this body, that body and everybody. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, The fascinating aspect of your observation when comparing your life today with what it was ten years ago, is that without wanting to go all the way you wouldn’t be how you are today (as you say yourself further below). The pure intent garnered from your PCEs was part and parcel of your journey. It may be different for everyone how they choose to live their lives but feeling being ‘Vineeto’ always knew that virtual freedom, both before and after being out-from-control, was a precarious stage and could be lost any time if/ when pure intent was lost. So even in those periods when ‘Vineeto’ was ‘running away’, procrastinating or feeling stuck, there was one grim determination that made ‘her’ persist and that was “don’t do a Devika”, i.e. don’t ever turn away completely. Devika, when transmogrifying into Irene gave ‘her’ an excellent demonstration of what not to do. It all helped to finally leave my ‘self’ behind. KUBA: And it is odd that ‘I’ know that ‘I’ will do that exactly, as Richard wrote
“Is it an admixture of pride and dignity, perhaps?” – After-all ‘I’ did set off on this adventure in
order to go all the way, and furthermore how could ‘I’ ever settle for ‘my’ second best when ‘I’ know
something so much better is available, just not for ‘me’ haha. VINEETO: Indeed, and it’s more than “an admixture of pride and dignity” in ‘Vineeto’s’ experience, it is also the pure intent, even when temporary dormant. It can be resurrected any time you ask for it. After all, the beneficence and benevolence of the actual universe itself is right here now the moment you direct your attention to it. KUBA: So I have been fascinated that there is this capacity which ‘I’ have, an aspect
of the programming bestowed by blind nature which can be utilised in order to end the human condition. And that this
aspect of the programming does not require any learning or cultivating or anything like that, it requires the correct
situation in order to be triggered. And I don’t mean that ‘I’ passively sit back and wait for something to
happen. Rather I mean that the gun is already loaded and the finger is on the trigger, it’s all set to go in other
words (this is not in reference to any “special psychic gun” btw, just that ‘I’ am already capable of
altruism by nature of being a ‘self’). VINEETO: Instead of thinking about altruism as a programming or a “psychic gun” (i.e. conceptually), there is an easier way to approach it experientially – you can become aware of such situations whenever you have a choice of being less self-centric than you would habitually be, simply because it feels good. Being less ‘self’-centric is the natural consequence of more and more naïve enjoyment and appreciation. Increasing kindness, generosity, magnanimity, bonhomie, friendliness and consideration will noticeably decrease being concerned about ‘me’ and ‘my’ problems, and appreciation, marvel and wonderment widen the outlook and horizon about all the magnificent happening beyond ‘my’ own narrow horizon – and a magical fairy-tale-like world becomes more and more apparent. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Yes I can 100% remember those kind of instances, in fact I was thinking about this yesterday, that the good/bad feelings are identity enhancing, whereas in the direction of felicity and innocuity ‘I’ as ‘self’ become more and more… irrelevant? it’s like the good/bad feelings draw a deeper and harder boundary to ‘me’ as ‘self’, whereas with those felicitous feelings ‘I’ am almost as if slowly being rubbed out, of course never quite but it can lead to a marked diminishment in that feeling of separation. So yes I can experience times when ‘I’ am being far less ‘self’-centric and it is always wonderful when it happens. But is this altruism? Or is your point that it can lead to where altruism can be activated? VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Softening the boundaries of ‘me’ allows you to consider everyone, who is not ‘me’, else why even contemplate an altruistic act. Remember the long correspondence Richard had with Srinath regarding real-world compassionate/ non-compassionate caring and near-actual caring, which I recently recommended to you?
Perhaps a refreshing of this – and the follow up – correspondence on that page is helpful for you to recognize the correlation of being harmless, considerate, kind, gentle, generous, magnanimous, friendly, and therefore less ‘self’-centric and self-absorbed, and thus able to, and interested in, an increasing caring and inter-personal intimacy to the point of an acutely-empathic caring (equivalent to a near-actual-caring), which for ‘Vineeto’ motivated ‘her’ altruistic action. Perhaps it’s also worth emphasising that being out-from-control is epitomized by a complete absence of self-centredness –
Point 4, 5 and 6 should complete the understanding for you how it is all related (if possibly without becoming a concept). KUBA: So I seem to be a little confused here… Richard has written that altruism sets in motion a process which leads to ‘my’ self-immolation and you have written to me that once altruism is activated it can be all over in an instant. Is it that as ‘I’ become less and less ‘self’-centric as an ongoing modus operandi that ‘I’ invite a situation where altruism is activated and ‘I’ am extirpated OR is it that “keeping the window open” of this ongoing progression into being less and less ‘self’-centric is altruism in operation, that this is the process which will lead to ‘my’ demise? VINEETO: Being “less and less ‘self’-centric” is not altruism, it is thinning out the dominance of ‘me’ in order to allow the universe to live me. Altruism is a single act which leads to ‘my’ demise. ‘Vineeto’ didn’t even think about altruism at the end, it just happened when all fell into place. Or to put it another way, you can’t think your way out of existence. There is no either-or, the only process is as Geoffrey put it so brilliantly –
I simply suggested an experiential approach the way ‘Vineeto’ experienced and utilized it. KUBA: Also is it possible to altruistically set the process in
motion and then to obstruct it from completion? Furthermore is that what I have been doing by magically finding
another ‘problem’ each time? VINEETO: Yes, having read all of what you have written so far, this is entirely possible. But then again, dealing with your objection to physical death one day, and giving up your dream of your soul’s immortality was certainly a necessary beneficial process. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO to Kuba: Self-immolation can not happen from a moment of apperception or from a
PCE, or even several PCEs in a row, it is a definite job ‘I’ have to do, as an identity, when all of ‘me’ is
in agreement with ‘my’ final demise. Hence my emphasis that ‘I’ need to be an all-inclusive ally in this task
– the only and most important task of one’s life. Hence ‘your’ job involves channelling all your
affective energy (your libido for instance) into felicitous and innocuous affective energy via naïve enjoyment and
abundant appreciation. JAMES: This quote above by Vineeto is something I have never
fully grasped. Self immolation is something ‘I’ have to do by being. happy and harmless. VINEETO: Hi James, Good to hear from you. What I wrote above is sort of encapsulates why the actualism is so perfect to successfully facilitate imitating the actual and eventually clearing the way for making ‘self’-immolation possible. Now that you understand it more comprehensively perhaps you are even more motivated to enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive. You might also appreciate this quote, which I sent to Kuba yesterday, explaining why putting everything on a preference basis is an essential tip for feeling good –
I wish you the best success in ongoing, or ever-increasing, enjoyment and appreciation. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto and Adam-H,
Wow what an incredible description. When I read this it was the word spontaneously that caught my attention. I read your response to Chrono just before and the quote you provided from Richard explains this spontaneous felicity and innocuity every moment of one’s life :
Certainly not just a difference in degree haha! I have experienced recently that there is an unbelievable perfection and purity, and it happens without any input from ‘me’, it is here already. When ‘I’ get out of the way then it is seen that the entire world is like this and it is all happening already, of its own accord. Which explains the below a little more :
It’s because that perfection and purity has got nothing to do with
‘me’, ‘I’ can only spoil it by getting involved. ‘I’ allow this perfection and purity – which is
already here – by getting out of the way. ‘I’ am not needed at all to maintain or generate it, and this is
perhaps the thing that can take so long for ‘me’ to fully comprehend and accept. VINEETO: Dear Kuba, I can’t resist answering – YES, it is so, “that ‘I’ am only standing in the way of it”. Such a simple matter once you apperceptively know it – and yet it can take half a life-time to experientially see it and concede it. Cheers and appreciation. Vineeto
JAMES: No, I wasn’t aware of why Richard called it pure intent. I need to make the connection that he called it that because of the intent that it was his destiny. Still not completely sure I have that right. I know it’s important to be precise. Still looking at that. In your next paragraph I see that it is the intent to take yourself to your destiny as opposed to having something else do it for you. I don’t know what specific objection I have right now to becoming free. I am drawing a blank such as I don’t know. Will keep looking. I think my objection right now to becoming free is that the ‘me’ that is preventing it is
not a ghost. It is real. VINEETO: Hi James, Today I read again Claudiu’s report about this visiting Geoffrey and what he had to say might help your contemplation on pure intent and self-immolation –
As you can see one needs to have a full and existential comprehension of what ‘self’-immolation means for the identity. No intellectualising about ‘a ghost in the machine’ can give you the reality of your oblivion-extinction. When you grasp this fully, your objection to it will become more specific and then you know more precisely what to look at. As Geoffrey emphasises, this is “not kid stuff. It’s not a playground ride or a roller coaster where you get on it then come back and get off and you’re back to where you were”. JAMES: Intellectually I know that ‘me’ is a ghost. What
makes it seem real is the feeling. The feeling comes first and then initiates the thought which makes it seem real.
It is only a feeling which is not real that keeps me from being free. It seems simple enough: Disappear the feeling
and I am free. VINEETO: Now here you present a typical logical-intellectual argument – if a) is so), then b) must happen. This is merely painting a misleading map and is not at all how it works in practice. You must have read, and conveniently forgotten, that Richard said many times –
Perhaps the whole article is worth re-reading for refreshing your memory. In other words, feelings do not disappear until ‘I’ cease being. ‘I’ am my feelings and my feeling are ‘me’. Cheers Vineeto
JAMES: Thanks for pressing me on this Vineeto. I hit a wall on
pure intent and self-immolation and came to an abrupt halt. VINEETO: Hi James, Have you considered that what you intellectually see “that this ‘me’ is not actual” could very well be the belief which is preventing you from accepting existentially [relating to ‘your’ very existence] that ‘you’ have to die, to disappear in your totality, in order to reach your destiny? One reason I am calling this a belief is that in a PCE the identity is in abeyance and therefore could not experience “that this ‘me’ is not actual”. Richard explained it this way –
(Richard, List B, No. 34a, 7 June 1999).
As Claudiu so eloquently described he had to fully comprehend that this is “not kid stuff”. Here is again Claudiu’s report from his visit to Geoffrey with additional emphasis –
In other words, as long as you intend to “disappear the feeling and I am free’” Andrew put the actualism method in a nutshell –
And here is a more detailed summary to minimise ‘me’ –
JAMES: I need to see that to access pure intent means to have the intent to access the purity of a pce which is outside of ‘me’. I do appreciate your guidance. Correction: I do see and am experiencing now that the way to experience pure intent is to have
the intent to access pure intent by remembering the purity of a pce. VINEETO: Pure intent is not, as may be believed, akin to the ‘Grace of God’ which,
if invoked ‘correctly’, will “disappear the feeling and I am free’”. Pure intent, when experienced, can provide the motivation and intention to minimise ‘you’ – i.e. malice and sorrow, compassion and desire – while maximising the felicitous feelings to the point where all of ‘me’ voluntarily and joyfully agree to go into oblivion. This process is experiential, not intellectual.
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, VINEETO: When ‘I’ return, as ‘I’ frequently do, from periods of apperception, have you noticed any change in the intensity of ‘self’-centricity? KUBA: Yes in fact I have! I was just observing this yesterday. ‘I’ have changed recently, actually this quote from Richard’s journal describes the change quite well :
I found something like a softness/ tenderness in ‘me’ as well as a growing appreciation, especially with regards to people, which is where ‘I’ always struggled in the past. Actually it’s a very lovely change, it’s something deep in ‘me’ that has shifted and a certain severity and solemnity is being replaced with something more tender and sweet. It’s nice to be nice, to be liking and likeable. And I was thinking yesterday why this change, is it that with what those moments of apperception show it is then impossible to go back to how ‘I’ was, that it is impossible not to appreciate and enjoy when it has been seen just how precious being alive is. But yes, as you say “When ‘I’ return, as ‘I’ frequently do” – this is indeed happening. Yesterday after ‘I’ came back ‘I’ attempted to rush the process forward by going back to ‘doing’ and then basically some hours later I realised that this is a complete dead end. It’s forgetting that those moments of apperception happened precisely because ‘I’ got out of the way. Actually it’s cool because (to use Geoffrey’s words) before ‘I’ tried to grasp the
process the “doorway” seemed to be indeed as big as the universe and then later once ‘I’ grasped it, it
became exactly “small and vanishing”. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I appreciate your detailed description and the various insights you gained such as “it’s nice to be nice, to be liking and likeable”, also that when you resurrected the ‘doer’, the “doorway” became “small and vanishing”. It seems to me those changes happen without ‘your’ doing (when you allow it) and you often only notice in hindsight what happened, and slowly get used to the unfamiliar, different way of being. KUBA: Experientially I am quite familiar with the target now, I realise that in the past I actually had no clue what I was aiming for with regards to actual freedom so of course ‘I’ created imaginary targets and aimed for those. Whereas now I have utmost confidence that the world glimpsed in those periods of apperceptiveness, the world of the “utter fullness”, is the correct target, it is the actual world where this body already exists without any input from ‘me’. There is also a surety that to live in the world of the “utter fullness” is my destiny, and it is already here. (…) VINEETO: Now that you have “utmost confidence” you are indeed aiming for the “correct target” (very, very important), have you pondered the question of irrevocability? – as in Claudiu’s report of Geoffrey’s words –
I am not necessarily suggesting you are on a “playground ride” but the very fact that ‘my’ demise will be irrevocable needs a clear, unwavering and unequivocal concurrence.
KUBA: Although the matter of “how will the deal be sealed” is still an experiential
question mark. VINEETO: Your question will only be answered after it happened. I am reminded of a conversation I had with Claudiu –
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: Yes, when you have fully grasped “the totality and irrevocability of ‘my’ demise” there will be no doubts left. No phoenix can rise from the ashes – there won’t be any ashes. I read Srinath becoming-free-report again and this part stood out –
KUBA: Hmm it’s quite fascinating, it seems to me that I have had glimpses of this, especially the past week or so there has been times with that kind of experiencing, where it seems it could have happened at any moment. BUT there was always this sense of choice, that I could go this way or that way, rather than it being an inevitability, which I presume is where the enormity of it can be fully grasped. VINEETO: Ha, don’t postpone the exploring the enormity of the fact that you will need to cease ‘being’ in your totality because at present you don’t experience “it being an inevitability”. Again, it is in your hands how much you allow ‘self’-immolation to become an obsession as Srinath described it well in the lead-up to his own event –
KUBA: The words “it could happen” means that ‘I’ still have a choice, some wiggle room, and where there is wiggle room, ‘I’ wiggle out! Reading Srinath’s words, ‘he’ had no choice at that pivotal moment of seeing – “I would need to truly die. The enormity of this dawned on me suddenly like it never had before. The enormity of what I had to give up. It took my breath away.” VINEETO: You do realise, do you, that Srinath had no choice because he gave himself no longer a choice? He wanted it so totally (“I wanted to be free so badly”) that there was no question of backing out again, and even a PCE-come-ASC could not divert him from his destiny. It seems to me that unless you put all your eggs in one basket and thus increase the intensity of wanting it like you never ever wanted anything before, you’ll be dilly-dallying until your hair go grey. KUBA: Indeed it looks that for altruism to be activated there can be no choice left for ‘me’, only the seeing which triggers “immediate and irrevocable action”. It is as if ‘I’ have been progressively removing the various choices, that is the very aspect of approaching ‘my’
destiny, but there is still currently some wiggle room left, and so ‘I’ can go on for a little longer. VINEETO: It sounds like you are merely theorizing when you say “it looks that” and “it is as if” and that you have not yet fully engaged in finding the definite answer. This was the question ‘Richard’ asked ‘himself’ back in 1981 – it gave ‘him’ the courage and stamina and persistence to go all the way –
Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, I understand what you are saying, of putting all eggs in one basket and going for it. However what I have been particularly cognisant of the past 6 months or so is not falling into the same trap where I did in the past. Whatever that place was I do not want to land there again, and back then no amount of pushing did the trick, it only created more imaginary worlds and more unpalatable resistance. So the past 6 months or so I would describe what I have been doing as consistently inching forward, taking small but genuine steps towards evincing my destiny. My motion forward has been more meticulous and less fanatical. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Thank you for your report of “small but genuine steps”. As such my suggestion of “putting all eggs in one basket” was premature. Only you can know what pace is the best way forward for you. For instance, I am reminded of Srinath saying –
Here is what Geoffrey reported regarding the weeks leading up to the event –
For what it’s worth, feeling being ‘Vineeto’ had a long period of hesitation to get-out-from-under-control[1] being concerned ‘she’ would inadvertently become enlightened instead – because at the time there was no precedent of how the Direct Route would unfold. [1] a long period of hesitation: that is until the 1st convivium meeting where Richard “impressed” upon ‘her’ the necessity of being out-from-control –
I agree with Geoffrey that “anyone’s way is going to be different” or is experienced to be different when approaching ‘self’-immolation. In hindsight they are very similar – “it is over in seconds”. One can compare it to the process from craft to art –
KUBA: In that sense so far things have actually been going great, in that there is no longer this unpalatable resistance and I am no longer entertaining illusions, well as far as it goes haha. And progressively the various obstacles to enjoyment and appreciation are also falling by the wayside. For example I notice that this feeling of “excuse me for taking up space” is now taking its leave, it no longer has anything to hold it in place. So it has been very much a case of applying the in the meantime method and slowly inching
forward, then from the new vantage point looking again at the possibility of self-immolation to see what I can make
of it, and then inching some more if I am not yet ready. Which I see what you are saying, I could do this sort of
motion for ever, and yet trying to skip ahead has been a disaster in the past. So I guess what I am trying to say is
that my total concern lately has been in making sure that whatever motion forward happens is genuine motion and not a
facade, this has been the priority. VINEETO: I appreciate your diligence – only you can know when you are ready – and when you are genuinely ready it will be too late to stop it. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Hi Vineeto, Coincidentally I was about to write a post today detailing what has been going on recently and
at the end I began writing about a gun which was loaded and the trigger needed to be pulled, I stopped right there as
I remembered that Geoffrey had settled this already VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Ha, both the ‘shooter’ and the ‘shootée’ have to disappear, voluntarily. Here is the pivotal sentence in the link you provided –
KUBA: As to “the sheer (f)actuality of the universe
is what eventually does ‘you’ in”
And how I have been experiencing life the past couple of weeks, there is a big window open to this kind of experiencing, apperceptiveness shows a world which has nothing to do with ‘me’ or ‘my’ machinations. But yes then at times I have been wondering, is there something ‘I’ must do back in ‘my’ world, which in practice it only ever ends up being a decoy, some ‘adventure’ that only goes around in circles and ends up with ‘me’ looking for the ‘psychic gun’. VINEETO: Even though you compare your experience to what Srinath wrote after he became actually free, fact is that ‘you’ are still a feeling being and are naturally assessing your experience (once apperceptiveness subsides) from ‘your’ perspective – in short, can ‘I’ live in this actual world ‘I’ remember having experienced. The phrase “something ‘I’ must do back in ‘my’ world” [emphasis added] might give you the illusion you have left ‘your’ world, which you haven’t. You described it more precisely before – “there is a big window open” and you are inside, more and more looking out the window. When you assess with the apperceptiveness/ PCE ‘self’-less perspective (whilst still experiencing the actual world) you know full well that there is no question that your flesh-and-blood body not only can live in the actual world but thrive far better than you do now. In a PCE you know that this actual world is where I belong, that I have always been here, where everything is perfect and magical. As such, what you confirm with your choice of words (“there is a big window open”), is that the final arbiter is ‘you’, the feeling being. As such, “when you know what you want”, all ‘you’ do is (eventually) agreeing to ‘your’ demise, permanently, irrevocably, and manumit the flesh-and-blood body Kuba from ‘your’ dominance.
In other words, to paraphrase Geoffrey, do you know “what it is one must sacrifice”
Because when you do know, with all your ‘being’ and without a shadow of a doubt, “then
only the sensible action remains” KUBA: I think I understand well what you are pointing to,
actually this is the aspect which is enabled via the diminishing of self-centricity, there is ongoing experiential
confirmation that a world exists which has nothing to do with ‘me’. This kind of experiencing is where I have
been hovering, unsure whether it is the allowing of that or something needing to be done back in ‘my’ world which
is required. VINEETO: What I thought be valuable information for you was: 1) that Actual Freedom is so much more magnificent and magical than one can ever experience in a PCE or in glimpses of apperceptiveness, and 2) that experiencing the sweetness of pure intent – embracing and appreciating the purity
and overarching benignity and benevolence of the infinite universe – as described by the pioneers
What is required for an actual freedom to occur is allowing your complete and irrevocable abdication (into blessed oblivion) for the benefit of this body, that body and every body, nothing more, nothing less. The way it happens is no via control (“a psychic gun”) but “when it
becomes more and more difficult to distinguish the difference between one doing it (doing this business called being
alive) and it happening of its own accord”. Richard: (Being out-from-control/ in a different-way-of-being is quite
daunting to contemplate as an on-going EE marks the end of the beginning of the end of ‘me’ and the commencement
of the actualism process – as distinct from the actualism method Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: … it would be a more correct metaphor to say that ‘I’
am in a greenhouse, with that wondrous quality being all around, as in a 360. And the ‘boundaries’ of the
greenhouse are not solid but rather porous, … KUBA: Oh and as were at it let me mention another thing which could well be another illusion generated by ‘me’ but it is interesting nevertheless. To go back to ‘me’ looking out the window, there is exactly that illusion generated that ‘I’ can then step into the world which was peeked through the window. So ‘I’ (the arbiter) end up projecting ‘myself’ into an imagined actual freedom. That is when it is just another adventure in ‘my’ world, with the psychic guns etc. Yesterday as I was looking at all this I experienced it completely differently though. To go back to this metaphor of the greenhouse… That self-immolation is when those boundaries which give ‘me’ ‘my’ very real existence are dissolved, so much so that ‘I’ would have never existed in the first place. So I experienced this as 2 completely different things, one being ‘me’ jumping from illusion
to illusion and the other being ‘my’ dissolution which reveals the already always existing actuality. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, (...) Unless one takes fully on board, that ‘I’ have to die in ‘my’ entirety you are liable to jump from "illusion to illusion", every one more ‘real’ than the previous. "That self-immolation is" not "when those boundaries which give ‘me’ ‘my’ very real existence are dissolved" because ‘you’ have not yet given permission for that to happen. "Those boundaries" do not dissolve of their own accord, the instinct for ‘self’-preservation is too strong. The passion for individual survival is surpassed only by the passion for species survival – hence altruism is essential. Even though you say you "experienced this as 2 completely different things" both alternatives were illusions. It may be opportune to again fully contemplate this –
And this –
I am not saying this to scare you but to point out a way out of those obviously persistent illusions that you can take your ‘self’ with you into an actual freedom through some "porous boundaries". There is also this report from Claudiu to you about his visit to Geoffrey –
When you genuinely and sincerely face this very fact that I will have to die, then such illusionary notion that you live in a luscious greenhouse with "rather porous" boundaries is no longer possible. To say it for emphasis, there is no connection at all between the real world and the actual world. To kid yourself that the boundaries are "rather porous" is only postponing your destiny. To put is another way – sincerity (and ruthless honesty with yourself) is the key to naiveté,
and the actualism process can only take over when one has "given oneself prior permission to have one’s life
live itself (i.e., sans the controlling doer), and a different way of being comes about (i.e., where the beer is the
operant) – whereupon a thrilling out-from-control momentum takes over and an inevitability sets in – whereafter
there is no pulling back (hence the reluctance in having it set in motion) as once begun it is nigh-on unstoppable." As long as there is any aspect of ‘you’ wanting to existentially avoid the fact that ‘you’ have to die, to disappear/ to ‘self’-immolate/ to vanish without a trace, in order for the actual world to become apparent, you will be reduced to grasping at various "doomsday straws" in the face of the essential insecurity of being a contingent ‘being’. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Yes I think I am still swallowing that previous bite, as it
was a big one! But that is the question indeed – What is preventing ‘me’ from agreeing to ‘my’
abdication. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I am reading this sentence again and I am wondering why you would want to “swallow” this “big one” – which is the insight that you are “narcissism”, and that “under the words it was ‘Me’, ‘Me’, ‘Me’”. Wouldn’t it be more sensible to not look at it from the identity’s point of view (integrate this into your identity /swallow it, i.e. make ‘him stronger because ‘he’ could handle such a crisis) but rather see it from the perspective of what you are aiming for, and celebrate that you can safely and felicitously /innocuously leave behind this particular chunk of ‘my’ ‘self“-importance and be naïve instead? KUBA [Addendum]: Actually I like the way Richard put it better – Just what am ‘I’ saving
‘myself’ for? Something to imbibe whilst you are contemplating (either fascinatedly, theoretically or imaginary) what is to happen next –
Read it slowly with your whole being, word for word, and see if now – that you are so stunningly aware of your (illusory) identity to a large part being narcissistic/ ‘self’-centric (as is the nature of feeling beings to a lesser or greater extent), and you have also experienced the sweetness of pure intent which Peter describes in the footnote – you can follow Peter’s description in action and allow the “separating veil to collapse” in order to be the innocence and purity as this flesh-and-blood body Kuba, which you have longed to be for so long. Psst – it’s as easy as falling off a log – it is sincere but not serious. Cheers Vineeto
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
Disclaimer |
