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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Andrew on Discuss Actualism Forum
VINEETO (to Henry): Contrary to popular conception, it doesn’t take ‘time out’ to
adopt the habit of affectively monitoring your mood and pay attention to when the mood-meter goes
below feeling good. Then apply whatever tool is necessary to get back to feeling good and resolve what triggered
feeling less than good so that it doesn’t occur again. ANDREW: Really? It take far more than “time out”. It take something that very few have ever managed. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I see that since then you deleted the message but I still find that it had enough worthwhile points to respond to it. Here is the detailed context about my statement that “it doesn’t take ‘time out’ to adopt the habit of affectively monitoring your mood” –
 (Richard,
List D, Claudiu4, 3 February 2016)
As you may or may not have discovered for yourself, you can be intellectually engaging in something while simultaneous being affectively aware of how you feel. As such it does not take ‘time out’ from engaging your intellect, or digging a hole in the garden, for that matter, to be able to being affectively aware of how you feel while doing this. ANDREW: For example, if I were to give personal examples, which I will not for reasons which the internet has now ensured are sensible, becoming someone who can “feel good” in all circumstances is far more “time out” than can be imagined. Indeed, I would say that it takes a lot more than “time out”, and that “popular imagination” goes not even a fraction of the way to “ensuring it doesn’t happen again”. VINEETO: For a start, it does not take ‘time out’ to notice a change in your affective mood and this is what was conveyed in the above sentence of mine. This is eminently possible for an intelligent human being, for instance –
Then, if one is motivated to get back to feeling good (because it feels good to feel good), one can see the silliness of feeling bad.
Of course, at present for you such application has no appeal because you, never having applied it, consider it “next to useless”. ANDREW: Such advice, while most obviously is orthodox “actual freedom” advice, is next to useless. VINEETO: It is quite risible to label something entirely new to human consciousness as “orthodox”. I understand that you presently find it useless to pay affective attention to your mood. And when all is said and done it is your life you are living. It is you who either reaps the rewards or pays the consequences for any action or inaction that you may or may not do. It entirely up to you. ANDREW: What Henry meant by “spiritual bypassing” I
assume is what is commonly discovered at some point; it’s really difficult to make money. Making enough money to
have some level of freedom is progressively more difficult. VINEETO: Rather than speculating (“I assume”) what Henry meant here is what he actually said –
As you go on to say that one needs “enough money in order to have some level of freedom” then this is clearly your approach/ your interpretation of what freedom is – the materialist understanding of freedom from physical needs. Indeed, making money or providing for the basics needs to stay alive is what all humans have to sort out for themselves. It’s a fact of life. Animals live by the same imperative – to do whatever it takes to survive.
Of course, you can concentrate on the material necessities only and resent that you have to do all this so physically survive – what we are discussing here is how the instinctual survival passions (and the identity formed thereof) make taking care of one’s bodily needs a burden, an emotional suffering, a permanent complaint and a desperate exasperation about the fact of being alive ... and how to change one’s affective attitude and emotional inclination regarding this moment of being alive. A materialist seeks to fulfil their instinctually driven desires as victoriously as possible, whereas the aim of actualism is to enjoy and appreciate being alive (all the while providing the bodily needs) by diminishing the harmful and detrimental influence of the self-centric attitudes and instinctual survival passions. And more than a few have indeed reported that they have successfully done so. As you may, or may not, have experienced, there is an actual world right under your nose. It’s when the instinctual survival passions and identity formed thereof temporarily go in abeyance (giving you a taste of what is possible) … and there is also a way to persuade this identity, ‘you’, to diminish ‘your’ dominance, and eventually give up ‘your’ ghostly existence. One way to begin this process is to become aware of, acknowledge, intelligently contemplate and sensibly give up this basic resentment of having been born in the first place. Even if this was the only thing you do, it would already make your life eminently more enjoyable and less antagonistic as it is now. Henry gave you a clue –
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: I see that since then you deleted the message but I still find that it had enough worthwhile points to respond to it. Here is the detailed context about my statement that “it doesn’t take ‘time out’ to adopt the habit of affectively monitoring your mood” – ANDREW: Hi Vineeto, I deleted the post, as it was very childish. Basically, I was objecting to something, and demanding someone else solve the “problem” I imagined. As you saw fit to respond anyway, I will do my best to be constructive and explore what it is I wanted “solved”. I have for a while suspected that Actualism is operating on a “direct pointing” type of psychic effect. This is a reference to Zen, where the student is made, sometimes with violence, to “see” some essential truth. I experienced this myself in an online environment once. Participants are instructed repeatedly “look! There is no self!” In various ways. The participants want to achieve what is being instructed, and it does work, to a point. The instruction itself is faulty in that method, as it bypasses the obvious; I am a self. At best it “peaks” at a “no self” experience, but won’t sustain it. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Thank you for your considered reply. It’s best to understand actualism without any preconceptions from previous involvements, if that is possible. The other suggestion I have is to start where you are at and make it easy for yourself – set your bottom line to feeling good (not getting rid of ‘self’ or something like that). Kuba has explained pretty well already to choose how to be the feeling, additionally
there is Richard’s article This Moment of Being Alive
In short, when you don’t keep the feeling you experience at arm’s length but accept that this is who you are, then you can choose that you might want to be a different (enjoyable and harmless) feeling. Of course, as Kuba said, it can sometimes be that “‘I’ have a stake in ‘my’ suffering”. ANDREW: We have, over many years, in various forums discussed the “at work” environment. It is a fact that no one as yet, has become “officially” actually free working a corporate job, in an office building, surrounded by modern working relationships. I say “officially” as [Respondent No. 15(D)] did achieve that, by his report, but my understanding is that he is not regarded as actually free by yourself. Everyone so far, has been in an “alternative” scenario. Self-employed, otherwise “off the beaten track”. Quoting Richard’s experience, while also knowing that an artist on his own farm is a far cry from a corporate office, still leaves the assertion that being affectively aware, without cognitive engagement, in unproven. Unless [Respondent No. 15(D)] is Actually Free. Regards If you are curious what [Respondent No. 15(D)] is up to you can ask him personally. Here is an answer to Kuba from December last year about presently newly and fully free people I know, or know of –
If that list has you still hesitate to begin to apply the actualism method in order to become more happy and harmless yourself then you might have to wait another decade or two until someone in your chosen category becomes actually free. Personally, ‘Vineeto’ applied the actualism from the moment she fully understood that an actual freedom was the solution to peace on earth and the meaning of life, which the spiritual path could never ever supply. But everyone has different criteria for being vitally interested. * ANDREW: Hi again, I can be even more exploratory in my response, especially to the quoted text of Richard about “current time awareness”. At any point of the day, I could give a detailed account of my psychological and emotional state. In fact, I don’t think this is even a rare ability, at a certain point in a person’s life, especially in this era of popular psychology being “baked into” much of our lingo and understanding. What is rare, and perhaps isn’t necessarily naturally there, is choice. Choice. Choosing one feeling over another, I don’t get. I can say the words. Perhaps, and this is me finding common ground between what I suspect the method actually is, and where I am, learning, or training, acquiring such an ability may indeed be the radical shift needed. As I have only been able to do 50% of the method. I don’t need any sort of pause to tell anyone asking what I feel.
What I can’t do, and I assume it’s because it’s an acquired skill, it choose to feel otherwise. VINEETO: The actualism method is about enjoying and appreciating being here – there is your choice, your priority in general. You not only have “current time awareness” but you have a preference for the felicitous and innocuous feelings and do something (as per instructions) about those feelings which are not felicitous and innocuous. You don’t need any psychology to work that out, in fact psychology only confuses the matter with theories and concepts. The other decision that has been very helpful is to decide to put everything on a preference basis – you prefer things or people to be in a certain way but if that is not the case, it doesn’t really matter. This upfront decision removes a lot of force/ demand/ wilfulness out of your emotional reaction and reduces ‘self’-centricity (which generally causes more problems than it’s worth).
ANDREW: The obvious conclusion is that accepting that acquisition of the ability to choose IS akin the “direct pointing”, as in “just do it”, then it’s really just the abandon needed to do it, “come what may”. However, uncoupling a feeling from action is where the fear kicks in. As, come what may, for the majority of my time in work, would be, to walk away and disappear into whatever wilderness I can find. Hardly practical. VINEETO: Well, you can equally say, just allow the malicious and sorrowful feeling to fade away by
recognizing how silly it is to hang onto it. The more you tune into the quality of actuality (as you would do in the
“wilderness”) the more you’ll experience the benevolent and benign quality (check out FAQ 66a As a very general observation (without the usual caveats) just look how children have the capacity to go back to being happy once their problems such as food, cleanup, a plaster and so on are taken care of, whereas sophisticated adults get worried when there is nothing to do, nothing to prove, nothing to justify one’s existence and all the duties, obligations and expectations to be fulfilled. Your choice can be to simplify life, not just practically but emotionally, in other words in the direction of allowing more naiveté. Nice to chat again after such a long time. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. I was very hesitant to reply after the deleted post. As in, I really questioned why I was going to object to something without having anything alternative, as in an “answer” to offer, and then divulge the rest of the thoughts, again, with nothing to offer as far as a useful answer. Between Kuba’s replies and yours, I see there has always been an extremism about how I approach actualism, which is the same as anything I do. I either can master it, or I give up and hang around it, talking about it. There is a huge amount of various efforts that can indeed be made between those extremes. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Indeed. And not just “various efforts” also fun experiments and valuable insights which can be actualised. ANDREW: I particularly like how you say this;
For a fair while I had some subtle success with this “convoluted” way of dealing with choice. VINEETO: Well, well, it’s only “convoluted” when you call it so, else it’s naïvely experimenting with choices you have never made because your “extremism” didn’t allow for them so far. ANDREW: Echoing Geoffrey and others, “choosing to allow”, and “allowing myself to choose” and other variations of multi-level linguistic permission giving, and granting, and otherwise humorously talking myself into a light-hearted mood. Thanks for the conversation. It has created “space” in my mind between the extremes. Perhaps I would indeed prefer to allow myself the permission to choose feeling good, and in light of the repeated fact that external circumstances often are not to my preference, to continue feeling good, enjoying and appreciating that very feeling, anyway. Haha VINEETO: You are welcome. Now it’s up to you to keep this “space” “between the extremes” open and play with the new options. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW:
Well, maybe we can have a candid chat at the snack bar about this quote, and the general idea Richard has written down many times, and that is the direct reproach given in being “taken aback by the implication and ramifications of such obvious ignorement/ ignoration of my specific responses and explanations, online….” It is not at all obvious “ignorement” unless one otherwise expects that other would at all times have remembered and considered everything one has said and written to them. I barely remember what I just said, let alone someone’s entire online repository of conversations. VINEETO: It might not look like “ignorement” to you because you weren’t active on the Actual Freedom mailing list and are therefore ill-informed about the situation. What was obvious, indicated already in the portion you snipped –
– that this particular person was one of the first subscribers (No. 4) and was actively reading and commenting on the list until August 2005 where he admitted a lack of interest –
5 years later he subscribed to the Direct Route mail-out for the sole purpose to arrange a meeting
with Richard in India
Hence Richard’s expression of surprise at their not knowing about the affective aspect of monitoring of his feelings. As for your taking umbrage at Richard’s term “taken aback”, here is what the dictionaries have to say what this phrase can mean – Surprise, shock, stun, stagger, astound, astonish, startle, take by surprise, nonplus, bewilder. Of course there are other meanings such as dumbfound, daze, shake (up), jolt, throw, unnerve, disconcert, disturb, disquiet, unsettle, discompose, knock sideways, knock out. As dictionaries are descriptive and not prescriptive it says more about the attitude of the reader’s choice to take the word as an insult or criticism rather than a simple description of astonishment. All words are formed and used by feeling beings and therefore Richard was careful to find and use words, sometimes rare ones, which have the least emotional connotation, and he also he gave extensive dictionary definitions (often in footnotes/ tooltips) to explain which meaning is indicated. But nevertheless, despite the clear overall description of an actual freedom being devoid of ‘self’ and therefore sans any instinctual passions/ the affective faculty, some people still insist that Richard expresses malice and contempt, condemnation and “intentionally insulting”. It is part of the unbelievable/ unimaginable, incomprehensible/ inconceivable nature of the pristine purity of this actual world. There were others who considered “golly”, equally an expression of surprise, as a malicious utterance. Viz.:
(Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 87a, 26 January 2006).
ANDREW: As for my statement about “orthodox” actualism; It is not at all “risible” unless you otherwise expect that I am ignoring the orthodox way that Actualism is presented in. Perhaps you thought “orthodox” means something other than it’s literal meaning, but in both Richard’s response and your own, what explanation is there for this “taken aback, and risible” framing of his and your thoughts? VINEETO: Here is what orthodox means according to the Oxford dictionary – “following or conforming to the traditional or generally accepted rules or beliefs of a religion, philosophy, or practice. Synonyms: conservative, traditional, observant, conformist”. How does that square with actualism or an actual freedom –
From the Homepage: “Actual freedom – new, non-spiritual, down-to-earth and actual”. And this from the Respondent Richard visited in India –
Naturally, for someone who would want to make actuality fit their own paradigm, it may appear offensive, dogmatic or orthodox. Devika, when she changed into Irene, pleaded with Richard to allow love being part of actuality. The identity will use any trick in the book to remain in existence. Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ found this out on many occasions. But the purity of the actual world was irresistibly attractive and ‘she’ the instinctual/ emotional identity, had to finally lay down ‘her’ arms and consequently gladly agreed to ‘her’ demise. ANDREW: Is it truly such that you forget how ‘normal’ works and have to keep commenting on it? I am trying to understand this particular quirk. VINEETO: I have been for the entire time “taken aback” and found it “risible” that anyone free would be surprised at anything at all in the human condition, and it’s always seemed that Richard especially was taking “jabs” at people when saying these types of statements. Perhaps, just perhaps you confuse an actual freedom with what equanimity means to Buddhists? ANDREW: Honestly, it comes across as if Richard was “dropped in from the sky” and had
no handle on what the others were experiencing. As if he had never experienced it. The “taken aback” could do with some explanation. VINEETO: If you read more of the correspondences on the Actual Freedom website you may discover the sheer volume of explanations and descriptions and personal reports Richard presents in order to meet people’s objections, explain their puzzling misunderstandings and have them comprehend the startling out-of-this-world-ness of the purity of actuality. I have never met anyone who was as much actually caring about his fellow human beings as Richard – actually caring meaning assisting them to bring their suffering to an end sooner rather than later. Your objections speak for the warrior being still very much alive and active, looking for threats and insults from everywhere, including the only place, the actual freedom website and the present discussion forum, which could assist you in getting out of this war-zone. I remember an early message of yours (somewhere in 2009) saying that “I get up each morning girding myself for battle”. This message had a deep visceral impact on ‘Vineeto’, so much so that I still remember ‘her’ being “taken aback” (as in shocked) about how not only you but presumably many other people lived their lives as a constant instinctually-driven battle, looking out and defending against enemies, and ‘Vineeto’ was determined to do something about this situation, in herself, to demonstrate that such forever adversarial attitude need not go on forever. Here is the actualism method again – in case your previous reading was stopped by the “taken aback” phrase, this time explained by two correspondents –
The only person you can change, and need to change, is yourself. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. Indeed, I had never considered that I was/am looking for “incoming attacks” constantly. Again, I am left puzzled at how I was ever going to get anywhere with this! It reminds me of a comedian who recently talked about general anxiety, where he had thought it was perfectly normal to a certain way around people. (Video-clip) VINEETO: Hi Andrew, This is the basic instinctual programming of ‘what can I eat, what can eat me’ at its most basic. It expresses itself emotionally and in varying strength. You can observe it in animals, from the jellyfish to the most developed mammal, and of course in humans. I was quite surprised about its complete absence when I first became actually free, even though I knew it would happen. I was even wondering how I would get along without this constant instinctual compass, how to deal with other human beings. It turned out to be utterly fine and deliciously intimate to only meet flesh-and-blood bodies. Intelligence is indeed sufficient to assess each and every situation sensibly and act accordingly. Now, Richard discovered and described a process where one can not only subdue/ suppress/ repress those instinctual passions via the age-old laws of conduct, dating back millennia to some god/goddess or bodiless entity, but that one can, with pure intent, whittle away both the social identity and passions and feelings and eventually manumit the physical body from the entire instinctual-emotional identity as well. ANDREW: It’s less of a warrior, and more of a worrier. I know this because although I do remember saying what you remembered, it was I believe borrowed from someone else saying it, and when I heard them say it, I identified with it heavily. I was in my mid-twenties, in a large corporate setting talking to the drafting manager. At the same time I had been going through extreme psych/ spiritual events whilst leaving Christianity only a few years prior. The process went on for around 5 years. In that time I had even given myself a new private name, which was coupled with (in hindsight) sub-clinical hallucinations both visual and auditory. (All this is self diagnosing here) One of the things I had been contemplating in the last few weeks was the amount of terror I suppress. Specifically related to Christianity and the otherwise ghoulish nature of the doctrines of hell and sin. The medieval invention of hell, with its Dante and others horror was more real to me than I had previously thought. Wired into me, and intertwined with everyday anxiety which might be considered more “everyday” and normal. VINEETO: I appreciate your detailed feedback. You must have been particularly sensitive and impressible in that the doctrines and descriptions of hell and horror left such a lasting and persistent mark of terror on you. ANDREW: It may all well be something very normal, as there was always this sense that I was craving notoriety, that I had “no excuse” and craved something to explain my ineptitude. However, even typing that out I can see the “sin nature” doctrine speaking, That I am forever doomed except by the grace of god. VINEETO: It looks as if you haven’t left Christianity completely behind yet, at least
there is still the belief of the devilish and divine interference of some supernatural being operating. Are you perhaps
able to remember an early PCE where you experienced that everything is already perfect? (Check out FAQ 64a It was an insight from a PCE which enabled feeling being ‘Vineeto’ to finally be done with any belief in God whatsoever. But she had already loosened up the belief in the Christianity via Eastern spirituality where a human being is ‘God’ on earth and then questioned the validity of that claim via sensible contemplation. Viz.:
ANDREW: It would seem that I have only one MO that has results, disappear then cause (in my mind) a “stir” and by someone else’s “grace” get saved. If only for a few weeks. VINEETO: Ha, that is not very a satisfying way to live, is it? ANDREW: It’s always been a huge source of guilt, that I would desire there to be something “wrong” with me. Whilst these entire time, there was indeed always something that was “off” but it was not directly those things at all. Thanks. VINEETO: Guilt is a terrible weapon of dominance, and Christianity is as responsible of wielding it as any other religion. What allowed ‘Vineeto’ to reduce and whittle down ‘her’ guilt of being alive – such as having to be useful to be allowed to take up space, apart from the guilt of being ‘bad’, sinful, disobedient, unenlightened and all the rest – was the factual understanding (confirmed by the PCE, but also via the sensible explanations from Richard who had first made sense of it) how the human condition operates. It also made it clear that ‘she’, like every other human being, is in this situation by no fault of her own.
There is more as that correspondence continues but this part already explains that being normal means being possessed by “‘me’, a psychological/ psychic entity”, who, because ‘I’ am not actual, naturally feels guilty and afraid to be exposed as a fake. No god of any description is even necessary to instil this guilt for being a contingent ‘being’ [non-factual, dependant], it comes with the genetically endowed package at birth. Gods/ Goddesses are invented to justify feeling the guilt in the first place. It is my guess that those fictitious deities and supernatural beings wouldn’t have the convincing power they have over human feelings if the guilt of being a ‘being’ wasn’t there in each person to begin with. When ‘Vineeto’ increasingly understood this, ‘her’ guilt of ‘being’ was gradually dislodged by recognizing that ‘she’ could do something about ‘her’ situation – ‘she’ could reduce the power of the ‘self’ by becoming more and more happy and harmless and enjoying and appreciating being here. To explain in short – ‘good’ and ‘bad’ feelings enhance the identity while felicitous and innocuous feelings diminish the identity and thus sincerity is able to reduce/ even dissipate the guilt or unease being an impostor. Being ruthlessly honest and sincere is an essential ingredient to stop hiding and become naïve, enjoying the adventure of unravelling the mysteries of the way we tick and the conditions we are born into. So, Andrew, you can safely abandon the terror and guilt of the god of the Bible or the god of Spinoza or any other Supernatural deity now that you know where the guilt originates, coupled with the good news that you can do something about the source of your unease of being a ‘being’. I suggest you read it slowly, it is at first mind-boggling but will make sense if you allow common sense (rather than defence and terror) to operate. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: It is my guess that those fictitious deities and supernatural beings wouldn’t have the convincing power they have over human feelings if the guilt of being a ‘being’ wasn’t there in each person to begin with. ANDREW: Thank you Vineeto! I appreciate your time on this topic, as it has been so central to me, even when I didn’t know it was! This quote above, supports something that has been in my thinking lately, at least it’s a similar insight. That ‘being’ uses ‘morality’ and indeed any ‘value’ system at all, as a tool. the ‘self’ is surviving through the very tools which are “supposedly” keeping it in check! VINEETO: Yes. Now when you instead of the subtle detachment by calling it ‘being’ or ‘self’ you boldly acknowledge that ‘you’ are this very ‘being’ or ‘self’, the sentences would read like this –
What this does, it puts the choice right back where it belongs – ‘you’ can now choose to do
something about it. You can decide to reduce the dominance of ‘me’ by diminishing malice and sorrow, by becoming
more felicitous and innocuous via the actualism method as described. ANDREW: It “seems” that it is keeping us in check, but I suspect that’s only part of it, that it’s intrinsically linked to the ‘self’.
As such the social identity is as much an aspect of ‘you’ as the instinctual passions which the social mores are attempting to curb.
However, this suggestion comes with a warning –
I gave you the whole picture regarding guilt in the last message and this one in order that you can
comprehend the origin of your guilt and therefore your beliefs in deities and demons may be understood as a hopeful/
terrifying diversion from the very reason why you experience an unease about being a contingent [non-factual,
dependant] ‘being’. Recognizing these facts allow you take remedial action. I can also recommend ANDREW: Like you said the gods had an easy time as all the aspects of the ‘self’ where already in place, the highly social, yet immensely ‘selfish’ entity uses all of these inventions, primarily to survive as a ‘self’. It’s been highlighted recently as certain events which could be called “immoral” (in my upbringings set of rules), and whilst factually harmless, gave me a lot to think about my own “morality”. As I witnessed others live their “morality” and be fine! I will reread your posts as it is very refreshing to have these feelings linked back to the broader context of “eat or be eaten” fears and aggressions. Thanks Andrew VINEETO: It can certainly help you in being more kind to yourself. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Turns out, ‘I’ pre-date god! The discussion with Vineeto about all the ingredients of god and religion essentially existing before any of the religions or belief systems happened, was both very freeing and fresh, but also surprisingly obviously the case! VINEETO: Hi Andrew, I am pleased it had this effect on you, and your opening line is quite correct – ‘I’ as the identity formed from the swirl of instinctual passions certainly pre-dates god.
ANDREW: So, ‘I’ have had all the aspects of what later were “codified” in religious fear and guilt, love, compassion, sin, etc… long before anyone had imagined the first “handing down” of commandments or any such thing. Even before my favourite “bicameral” people theory, all the passionate energy of ‘who’ I am “really”; blind nature’s rough and ready survival and reproduction “programs”, was there! Fully intact and in full flight! VINEETO: I’ll butt in here before you go on and insert a feeling, and a fresh identity, into this remarkable insight. I suggest to linger a bit longer in this pre-identifying gap, if you can, and allow some further fascinated reflective contemplation regarding the ramifications and consequences of having been able to shed the wrath and grace of god, and ponder how you can enjoy and appreciate this freedom, and if it is worth to do whatever necessary to maintain such enjoyment of freedom.
ANDREW: It’s a remarkably freeing fresh feeling to know this is a fact. I feel it! I feel it in a very direct down-to-earth-way. It’s the same “flavour” as my previous “one with god” illumination years, but without anything between the freshness and the knowing of it. When I have felt this before, it was in the context of new age, “I am god” imaginations et. al. There was that colouring of supernatural power is “around the corner”, and walking on water was inevitable. This is just feeling the fact of ‘being’ ‘myself’. ‘I’ know what I am!’. Me? I know who I am! I am a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude! Simple. VINEETO: Have you noticed, once you condensed the insight into a feeling and as such into a belief, and then collate it with those feelings of a familiar flavour, similar to previous affective experiences, that the original insight instantly loses its freshness and poignancy? You even conclude (erroneously) “just feeling the fact of ‘being’ ‘myself’. ‘I’ know what I am!’” Now, a feeling can never be a fact as a feeling cannot experience, let alone know, “what I am”. What you are is the flesh-and-blood body only, as experienced when the ‘self’ is temporarily in abeyance. Whereas the feeling “of ‘being’ ‘myself’” is a passionate feeling born of the instinctual passions – and it not only changes according to your fluctuating moods but, as you already discovered, can also be changed by choice for your benefit and the benefit of those around you. Now that you determined (believe) that you are “a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude” – what are you going to do with this feeling? Do you want to live like those ‘dudes’ in the video you attached (Yuri Wong “I am a Dude”), driven by passion, or perhaps be inspired by a more happy and friendly way of life? Such as –
Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: I’ll butt in here before you go on and insert a feeling, and a fresh identity, into this remarkable insight. I suggest to linger a bit longer in this pre-identifying gap, if you can, and allow some further fascinated reflective contemplation regarding the ramifications and consequences of having been able to shed the wrath and grace of god, and ponder how you can enjoy and appreciate this freedom, and if it is worth to do whatever necessary to maintain such enjoyment of freedom. ANDREW: Indeed, I can heed these words quite willingly. I am very much enjoying some of the ramifications. For one, driven the freeway each morning and night is usually a huge annoyance. However, being as you say, a feeling and not a fact, (I will remember this, very useful and easy to remember). I see other drivers just doing what any person driven by the exact same blind program will do, variations on a theme, and actually amazing that we all get where we are going, the vast majority of time. It was so much easier to see my own anger, and it all be pre-morality. All happening before morality was even a thing, in the modern sense. I felt it is a lightweight manner, as the feeling and the knowledge were immediate. I wasn’t trying to “not be angry”, I was angry, but was not exploding because I was not repressed. It was definitely the beginning of fascination. It was interesting. Feeling myself, watching others. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Yes, it is generally “morality” incorporated into one’s own identity and the accompanying self-image which stands in the way of acknowledging the feeling which is happening. But once “the feeling and the knowledge were immediate” and you know that this is ‘me’ in action, then it is easy to choose to be in a more pleasant and harmonious manner – voilà, you are instantly more happy and harmless. And thus there is room for fascination and contemplation. Life is amazingly fascinating when ‘I’ don’t insist of having an emotional opinion/ reaction to everything that is happening. That’s why I ‘butted in’ before you proceeded (in the last message) to make “a fresh identity” which would consolidate whatever you feel into a substantial (seriously important) event demanding protection and defence of this freshly created identity. Here it is explained more fully –
Feeling being ‘Vineeto’ never paid much attention to this article, ‘she’ found it too dense, but now I can see how much information it contains for understanding and achieving apperceptiveness right from the beginning. I am reminded of Peter talking about looking from the front of one’s eyeballs.
ANDREW: It seems all so much easier. VINEETO: It is indeed “much easier” and a marvellous way of living naïvely. This is wonderful. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto, It’s been great having an experience that can indeed be related back to that article! It was a favourite article back when I first was introduced to Actualism by the Dharma Overground forum. I have had the ongoing feeling that the entire background has changed. Twice, there was an ever so slight shift in perception, just upon realising something fresh with this new knowledge of ‘I’ preceding the entire mess of religion. The sky sort of blinked a slightly different colour today when walking to get some lunch. And also, this morning whilst watching cars “cut in” front of me, there was a definite sense of choice happening and a slight shift in perception. Almost like neither happened, but the feeling was as if ‘I’ could shift altogether out into the world. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, This is excellent and I am pleased you had a different experience to the article than you had years ago when you were still reading it from the DhO-paradigm. Pay attention to that “ever so slight shift in perception” because this is the beginning to your experiential understanding of what actualism is – doing whatever you can to imitate the actual world. And having discovered the “definite sense of choice happening” is your guide to change feeling bad, for whatever reason, into feeling good and enjoying and appreciating being here in this only moment you can experience being alive. Then you can begin to also apply this “sense of choice” to minimise the ‘good feelings’ as well –
ANDREW: The choice to feel good isn’t always obvious though. That seems that I need to sort out some logistics in my life. Practical things in my living space, as they are an ever-present excuse to feel frustrated. VINEETO: When the choice to feel good is not obvious, there may be some good feelings as well as some valued beliefs you don’t want to give up and/or, as you say, some required action in regard to “sort out some logistics in my life” which you might have so far shied away from. In any case, this new “ever so slight shift in perception” which now gives you a “definite sense of choice happening” is an opening to change your life for the better. ANDREW: I will read that Apperception article again. Thanks VINEETO: It is a pleasure to read your feedback. It bodes well for imminent beneficial changes for increasing feeling good. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I don’t like the feeling of being better than others. I want everyone to be special, and to enjoy that. I don’t like people being left behind. I don’t enjoy being infatuated, but to be honest, I do enjoy people being infatuated with me, for a moment at least, because then it’s in my power to be nice to them. To enjoy their blind desire towards me. I am only thinking of a single person when I wrote that last part! Haha Edit: no, I just experienced really strongly once. I do get it day to day. I like being nice to people who ‘desire’
me, because usually I see them feeling they need me somehow. It’s related to the above musings, but more towards how I can’t motivate myself anymore. I don’t have any answers for this central issue of motivation. In context, everything that motivated me was , as Vineeto touched on, a fight or flight, eat or be eaten, reproduce and survive type of life. Even my precious music! All of it. In other news, there has been far more moments of just being a human, “pre-religion” in the last few weeks. I really wanted to ask a question, but I forgot what it was I wanted to know as soon as I started typing. Asking others for help has always been a huge problem for me. I feel I should be helping everyone else, but I just
don’t have anything to give anymore. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, You had a big insight – “pre-religion” – and you most likely still digest all the ramifications and consequences of that. Until this settles down, any “motivation” for action is likely to be a mental/ moral construct. So instead of looking for others “blind desire towards me” why not start with being friendly with yourself and perhaps be sincere and honest with yourself enough that you can get to the point where you genuinely and naïvely like yourself. ANDREW: I guess I can do better than that. The last few weeks, after Vineeto pointed out that all me religious fears were essentially the “eat or be eaten” fears of blind nature, I had the experience of “popping out” the other side of the bulbous growth that religious belief is in my life. Like some vine infected along its length with a parasite, all that heightened dramatic and complex Dante’s circles
of hell, was seen as an inflammatory response. VINEETO: Exactly – that’s why I suggested to do something you may not have done before – be friends with yourself. Here is a practical example –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto, It’s such a lovely post to read, again. Especially it stands out to me that the harshness is automatic. The belief that I really should be better than I am. Hmm. Yes, it’s a nonverbal question, an acceptance. It was only the other day, after a week of really only thinking about the single line “emotionally accepting the intellectually unacceptable” that it finally dawned on me that the acceptance was the opposite of rejection! I spend so much time emotionally rejecting everything! Including myself in whatever form I perceive myself. I am not exaggerating when I say I was, in terms of Actualism interest, thinking of just this
one saying Richard liked. I was determined that something he liked should be something I understood, instead of
rejecting it, or glossing past it. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, It is a good idea to start “emotionally accepting the intellectually unacceptable”. That, of course, includes accepting yourself as you are, i.e. being friends with yourself. If that is too difficult right away, you can start with something easier – the weather, for instance. And with more practice of observing and acknowledging some of the things you are “emotionally rejecting”, get back to feeling good and then think about it how it makes no sense to make yourself feel bad (that’s what rejection does) about all kinds of things, which are not in your control. What is in your control is how you feel – and you can bit by bit choose to be a different feeling, a more happy and harmless feeling. Simply because it feels good to feel good.
If you find that it works to emotionally accept some of the things you emotionally rejected, you can then expand the list of your resentments and give attention to them to reduce them bit by bit – you will find that the resentment against liking yourself will simultaneously diminish as well. It’s an adventure, Andrew, and with increasing success it will increasingly be fun too. Remember what you said about the Global Warming controversy, after you had discussed and investigated it for facts for a while –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. There has been an interesting and very strong emotional charge that I have had my whole life
around creativity. My mother reported it to me being very obvious even at two years old! I started feeling it again a lot lately while trying to get back into creating musical recordings. I bought equipment which I thought would do the job, but it is far more complex and unintuitive that that old “two-year-old” reaction was there! Given your recent reminders about “fight or flight, eat or be eaten”, i.e. the blind natural basis of a feeling being, I am now wondering what this particular emotional rejection around putting effort “over time” into creativity. Still pondering this. It’s a strong reaction. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, It looks like you came across your first major obstacle to put everything on a preference basis. You say there is a “very strong emotional charge” to “immediately master something”, otherwise “I give up” and that you had this “strong charge” since you were “two years old”. Now since that time as a toddler you have most likely experienced other “very strong emotional” charges. Are you equally compelled to obey those “very strong emotional” charges or only this particular one. Why this one? Why do you allow this two-year-old toddler’s “emotional charge” to continue to dominate your life today? You could let this emotional charge subside whenever it appears, until you are back to feeling good, and then calmly think about it – does it not look silly to you? Naturally, it’s a long-standing habit, but that does not mean it cannot be changed – if you have the intent to no longer let it control your life. Wouldn’t it make sense to address this dominating emotional charge so it no longer prevents you from succeeding in mastering something, anything you want to do? ANDREW: I have been listening to a favourite band a lot lately, while letting this understandings sink in; there is a simple answer to the question, once the parade of religion has passed. (Hah, made that line up just then, but I like it). That is, this objection to putting in effort is mixed in with plenty of “after the fact” beliefs about it. Basically, my own private religion around “getting it right the first time” but also,
never being better than anyone else, but craving the love of everyone. VINEETO: Ha, you identified two beliefs from your “own private religion” which contribute to the “very strong emotional charge” to “immediately master something”, apart from that it also needs to be perfect –
It indeed “feels ridiculous”. Well spotted. It’s time to proceed removing these beliefs of your “private religion” from your personal emotional database, don’t you think? As for “craving the love of everyone” – have you recently remembered to be friends with yourself, and appreciating your nous [common sense] when you discovered, and consequently dismantled, some obstacle to feeling good? Liking yourself does a lot to diminish the need for everyone else to like (love) you. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto, Firstly, I am starting to look at the “why” would be so invested in rejecting effort over time when mastering anything? Is it simply a two year old tantrum? Without actually being originally a tantrum? I think it’s in the class of all those primordial type feelings and morals which form into religion, as you were writing about. This is such a powerful paradigm to see all of the elaborate stories I tell myself about who I am! VINEETO: Hi Andrew, Ok, you found “all those primordial type feelings and morals which form into religion” – firm beliefs that look like the unviable truth. Yet when you say “I think”, which is not the same as saying ‘I know’, you show that your contemplative exploration can go further until you reach the point when you can say “it clicked” – possibly even when such a “clicked” realisation can lead to the disappearance of the hold that these firm beliefs have on your life. ANDREW: It seems to me that it’s in the class of feelings which are very egalitarian, giving rise to the injunctions of humility etc. Being excellent at something naturally can’t be helped, but trying and practicing and putting in effort seems to be cheating. It sounds ridiculous, because it is ridiculous! VINEETO: Perhaps you are not sure (“it seems”). Keep exploring until you get to the bottom of it. Regarding those so-called “egalitarian” feelings such as “humility” – these words describe virtuous feelings, part of the ‘good’ desirable feelings, those that are loving and trusting and virtue-signalling. As you have probably been finding out during your life so far, those are just as detrimental to your (and others’) wellbeing as those more easily detectable hostile and fearful feelings. Here is Richard’s comment on humility, which is merely pride standing on its head –
ANDREW: However, there is the aspect that excellence of skill for the purpose of feeling better than others, or seeking love, fame, recognition, also goes against some primordial “levelling” morality. An ancient “tall poppy syndrome”. Perhaps it’s just the modern version. I am Australian after all. VINEETO: Ah, I understand now the uncommon directive that “putting in effort seems to be cheating” and that only natural excellence is permitted. It is there to prevent pride – of course, if you never achieve anything by not putting in effect, you have never anything to be proud of! What you can do instead of repressing your pride by being ineffective in your actions is to gain some dignity and autonomy by choosing a different path to the Tried and Failed altogether with the intention to become happy and harmless. Then remember to pat yourself on the back whenever you succeed in finding and dismantling an obstacle to feeling good and discovering how you tick –
The beginning of this correspondence also clarifies the issue of pride and humility. By the way, there is no such thing as a “primordial “levelling” morality” – the “primordial morality” is the law of the jungle. Morals and ethics were put in place to curb the worst excesses of the instinctual passions. I highly recommend reading both “the Formation and Persistence of the Social Identity” It can help you to take another look at your “class of feelings which are very egalitarian” including their impractical “injunctions” and possibly replace them with more sensible options. While equity and parity prevail in Terra Actualis, these clearly don’t happen via repressing pride or stifling sensible action, but by enjoying and appreciating being alive and being naiveté (liking yourself and liking one’s fellow human beings). Please remember, only when pure intent is dedicatorily in place – as an overriding/ overarching life-devotional goal which takes absolute precedence over all else – can you begin whittling away of the otherwise essential general societal/ cultural conditioning. Else it would be both harmful to you and others to haphazardly switch around your morals/ethics from one “ridiculous” lot, as you called them, to another.
ANDREW: Thanks for the encouragement. It is really giving me the
space to look at this from a new perspective. VINEETO: You are welcome, Andrew. There is so much more to discover about the wide and wondrous path, and you seem now to be ready to clear the workbench and start afresh … and already have some success. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: One of the many threads that are sprawling out around this question of a life long aversion to putting in effort to self improvement/ talent, is this: fear. Nothing more, nothing less. Afraid of not being able to measure up to the example given My days are strange. I am interested in these questions. Actually interested. I am not making any effort to feel good, I just remind myself to “accept” things as they are, emotionally. That alone is quite a paradigm shift. The outcome is I feel generally better. That something gentle is happening There was always desperation in all my efforts. I wonder sometimes about something Kuba mused at one point, that this is all an “old persons” game. That Actualism was something that happened to older people, 40 plus. There is something in that, but not necessarily because of age itself, but rather having
exhausted so many desires. It does become obvious as one’s hair greys, and one doesn’t move like one used to (my
weekly basketball sessions with guys half my age prove that!) which slows the blind ambition down. Since Vineeto recently endorsed again the Indian woman who became actually free within 48 hours
of landing and meeting with the pioneers of this endeavour, and exactly how crucial this event is in the assessment
that there are no pre-conditions to actual freedom, at least not in the ways we normally think of (“X”
amount of effort over “Y” amount of time, in “z” specific ways); I have to ask the obvious! I remind myself often of this “no preconditions” assertion, for obvious reasons. It
would be a decisive blow to all doubts if the mystery woman of the subcontinent had anything to say about her
experience. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, This is the information on the Actual Freedom website about the person of Indian birth you are talking about –
That is all the information available. Here is the occasion where I wrote what you called “Vineeto recently endorsed again” –
What you call ‘endorsement’ was me highlighting the situation “when the conditions are ripe, magic happens” – an enormous energy, in this case sourced in the “deeply felt universal sorrow for all feeling beings” and, amongst other unknown factors, of course, a full agreement to have it happen now. Richard made it clear, in the interactions reported by Dona and Alan during their visit that “there are no conditions to become actually free”. Here is a forum discussion about this –
You can probably work out how all the above applies to your personal situation – Now that you discovered your fear of moving one step further because of being “afraid of not being able to measure up to the example given” – you muse how despite (or because?) this obstacle you can become actually free right away? There are no conditions from the actual world, it is right here, happening right now. The question is, are the conditions right from ‘your’ side? Do you, without reservation, joyfully agree to ‘your’ demise? Or is this only a fantasy built from another’s experience as a way of avoiding your fear of not fulfilling ‘your’ standards, examples, conditions, should you decide to take the practical step of changing your ‘being’ to being more happy and more harmless? You can also look at it thisaway – you want to be actually free because you don’t like being here –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I remind myself often of this “no
preconditions” assertion, for obvious reasons. It would be a decisive blow to all doubts if the mystery woman of
the subcontinent had anything to say about her experience. VINEETO to Andrew: You can also look at it thisaway – you want to be actually free because you don’t like being here – KUBA: Ah this makes sense now, if ‘I’ am treating actual freedom as a desperate escape plan for ‘me’ then it is merely a self-centred involvement borne of ‘my’ resentment to being here, its selfism driving the attempt and so it is bound to go round in circles. As Richard wrote – “Only altruism – self-sacrificial humanitarianism – will provide the enormous
energy necessary for ‘self’-immolation”. When gloomy and grumpy ‘I’ am certainly not concerned with much else other than ‘me’. I
find that ongoing felicity and innocuity does naturally engage dedication to peace on earth, it broadens the scope of
‘my’ caring and it demonstrates/ reminds ‘me’ just how precious the end of suffering – for all – is. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, hi Kuba, I like to expand on this topic of Richard saying “when the conditions
are ripe, magic happens” Richard expanded on the “no condition” elsewhere –
So why does not everyone become actually free instantly as has apparently happened for “the mystery woman of the subcontinent”? It is simple – the actual world is already here, has always been and will always be. It becomes apparent when ‘I’/ ‘me’ go temporarily in abeyance. Ergo – ‘I’/ ‘me’, the passionate, imaginary identity needs to disappear/ voluntarily go extinct for the Terra Actualis to become apparent permanently. However, when you wonder why it ‘you’ don’t disappear/ voluntarily go extinct tomorrow or the day after because it is such a good *idea*, consider what, of your own free will, you are intending to leave behind – all your hopes and doubts and fears, your hostile feelings as well as your loving and trusting feelings, all of your beliefs and trusted concepts, your grand castles made of imagination, your (borrowed) standards of right and wrong, good and bad and your sense of ‘being’ someone. Recognizing the scope, be friendly and kind towards yourself, and enjoy and appreciate every instant when your intelligence and your intent to be more felicitous and more innocuous gives you a greater range of freedom to do so and be so. And be aware that you are not alone in this grandest of adventures in your life –
The “the enormous energy necessary for ‘self’-immolation”, provided by altruism “when the conditions are ripe” is required because of the powerful passionate energy of the self-survival instinct.
There are no conditions how to bring this about, how slowly or instantly, it is entirely in ‘your’ hands. Everyone is a pioneer in this exhilarating, sometimes thrilling adventure of engendering this new epoch in human consciousness. Richard also commented during Dona and Alan’s visit –
And here is what you can do in the meantime, because –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I am going to write about this because it’s so
relevant to everything, and I have no answers to it. The “instant masterpiece syndrome” seems an appropriate name for this. Clearly a fear. But also lots of rejection of…trying? That’s the bit I can’t work out. I have an immense pressure in my chest, life long feelings of immense rejection of …something. Which is the weird bit. I am naturally (as in the actual I is, I am clearly in the way) very talented. I have literally no problem immediately producing art, but never masterpieces or anything that takes more than a few minutes. Beyond an initial inspiration and burst of creativity, I completely give up. I have always hid behind this. But I want to “come out”. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, It’s a good name – “instant masterpiece syndrome” to start the exploration. So far you can see it is based in fear. ANDREW: It is an emotional perfectionism. I reject anything which is less than perfect, in the instant. I am of course, squarely in the
crosshairs of my own instantaneous rejection. I also feel guilty that I would make such an excuse ! The flip side is also there, which is the nihilism of efforts making any difference to the final
outcome of anything; pain, fear and death. That doesn’t explain why I felt it at two years old. However, my father had one of those
horrible lives you read about, so it’s entirely possible I have psychically been living out his drama my whole
life. VINEETO: You are discovering the various traps of this “emotional perfectionism” – and notice that almost everything is a feeling reaction to this original demand to be instantly perfect. ANDREW: Creativity and my ineptitude seem interwoven. Music has less to show for it, though I made many more slight efforts, and spent more money on
it. It’s slightly more forgiving as an art form. More sustainable. I can’t tell if I am romanticising about this, but I held this to be the case when I first
found out about my childhood aversion to copying my mother. That there was something about the competition, rather
than the pure instant creation, that repulsed me. VINEETO: And because feelings by their very nature go round in circles between fear and guilt, frustration and despair, as they always do, you try some relief in blaming society – not that it works to make you feel better, it only adds to the apparent hopelessness of how you feel. ANDREW: In all of this is my ultimate justification for ‘my’
existence, as in the specific way ‘I’ sustain myself. VINEETO: However, you now put your finger on the nub of the issue – ‘I’/ ‘me’ want to sustain ‘myself’. It highlights what thoroughly destructive ways ‘I’ have in order to “sustain” myself. ANDREW: In art, pain is a commodity. As my entire adult life was dominated artistically by “grunge” specifically Nirvana,
and my musical journey started with buddy guy and the blues, I can see the far simpler answer to at least some of
this drama; pain is fashionable! VINEETO: Not sure what you mean by “grunge” – I found synonyms such as these – “squalor, uncleanliness, scruffiness, sleaziness, muckiness, poverty, dilapidation, dirt, grime, muck” (wordhippo.com). None of them sound like something you would, when looking at it sensibly, want to perpetuate. But apparently this has been the “specific way” for you to “sustain” your ‘self’? And because you have been doing it to yourself you can also change it all by yourself. Now that you have a label – “instant masterpiece syndrome”/ “emotional perfectionism” and started exploring a lot of the impassioned ramifications of your emotion-backed thoughts, i.e. your beliefs and personal ‘truths’, you can try out something new – get back to feeling good and then apply some method to your thinking to make it more productive and sensible. This is what ‘Vineeto’ reported –
And here is Richard’s advice ‘she’ put into practice – (Audio-Taped Dialogues, Silly or Sensible). Discover the fun in getting to know the workings of your own mind. Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: I appreciate your time and replies Vineeto! I have read the “circle a thought” and then meander discussion before. It is lovely to be living it somewhat. Last night it was important to get out of bed and make more notes, as it’s the usual way to forget everything soon enough, and no amount of “circling or stars” will cause me to remember. FYI, “grunge” was a style of punk rock music which rose to global popularity in the early 1990s, led by a band called Nirvana. It was iconoclastic, as far as the popular music scene was concerned, and defined the generation which was beginning to be called “gen X”, the children of the post war “baby boomers”. I don’t know if previous generations had names for each other. It’s pretty eye opening to see the generations changing so rapidly with the advent of technology! VINEETO: Hi Andrew, You are very welcome. The generations before the baby boomers were ‘the great war generation’,
the ‘between the wars generation’ and the ‘2nd world war generation’, followed by a generation
instinctive-naturally replenishing the enormous population which was killed in the 2nd world war. Thank you for explaining what “grunge” stands for. In combination with the music video
you posted (GoGo Penguin
Whatever preference you pick to keep or throw out, it’s certainly time to recognize that this wide-spread religious ‘solution’ has not worked, don’t you think? ANDREW: Which, ironically is what my mind is consumed with these days. Which piece of technology will I purchase to make music! Haha, so very not musical! There is decades of this drama in me. This “instant masterpiece conundrum” playing out. I feel myself passionately in ‘here’ somewhere. Each time I start to think through the objective of what it is I want to musically achieve, the more money that is going to cost! Time to get some sticks and an animal skin drum. The modern world is determined I go back to being broke, just to make ‘music’. It is very much a “put your money where your mouth is” scenario! Whilst the music itself costs nothing and it’s my own belonging to society which causes me to crave the expensive and unnecessary trappings of modern music production. I have guitars sitting in front of me. Why do I crave recording myself? Well, some of it isn’t egotistical and vainglorious, but rather missing the feeling of creating music with others. I used to be in bands, and had quite a few experiences of transcending myself when playing music. Once in front of around 3000 people! Other times in church, a few times in pubs. VINEETO: Personally I think you can do a lot better than your favourite band – some fun, some liveliness, an expression of the exuberance and splendour, of the magnificence of the universe and this moment of being alive. For this exuberance and joie de vivre to be set free, however, requires remembering your recent realisation regarding the nub of the issue – “‘I’/ ‘me’ want to sustain ‘myself’” and to translate it into practice. The more you act on this realisation, i.e. actively diminish yourself and are consequently more able to enjoy and appreciate being here, the more the quality of your creativity will increasingly express how you experience life. Diminishing your bank account alone by buying equipment won’t be enough. ANDREW: Hmm. I am enjoying this exploration. VINEETO: Excellent, keep going. There is so much more to come. ANDREW: The idea occurred to me that this fear, the “immediate perfection complex” has to be something that a 2 year old would feel. None of the elaborate stories about art, or anything else can be the source. If indeed it has anything to do with getting things “perfect” at all! It could be anything, but it has to be something formed at and before 2 years old. Potentially some sort of early false self imagination. That in the environment I was, all was scary? It’s encouraging to simplify it all like this. VINEETO: I understand that you are curious to find out when it was and what it was which stifled you, but Richard describing his own dealing with ‘his’ childhood hurts may give you some immediate release from it all – if “‘I’/ ‘me’” who wants “to sustain ‘myself’” can give permission to have them released, that is –
Cheers Vineeto
ANDREW: Thanks Vineeto. Your insights are truly remarkable. I enjoy re-reading the writing of Richard, especially as I have read it before but not had any connection with them; having them stand out to me like this is lovely. VINEETO: Hi Andrew, That’s good to hear. There is a plethora of information how to feel good, feel better and feel excellent on the Actual Freedom website – I won’t be around forever to present you with appropriate quotes. But I am pleased to read they are of use to you. ANDREW: Your links between “my” generation and Buddhism, repetitive musical motifs, focusing on suffering, are remarkable. They are like “water to a fish” to me; I was tangentially aware, but having it pointed out? Wow. VINEETO: Indeed you have expressed the theme of “life is fundamentally disappointment and suffering” often enough to see the connection but when you introduced the video as “one of my favourites over the last decade” I became obvious. Now that you know that it’s religion, albeit Eastern religion, you have inadvertently practiced, are you ready to wipe the slate clean like you did with guilt a couple of weeks ago? ANDREW: I have been wondering how my mother remained so insulated from self-reflection. Christianity is a hell of a drug, it would seem. I am tempted to see something of the overall “tone” of rebellion in my feelings towards the moments I remember. In all of this, it’s very obvious I don’t “know” as you pointed out a few posts back. These ideas are all interesting, I “think” some are close. VINEETO: Did you fully understand when Richard said –
Now, that you described what you remember your mother did to instil this ‘instant perfectionism’ in you – did that make any difference in your attitude and behaviour towards succeeding? Or was it just a realisation to be filed away for telling a good story some time? You said – ANDREW: The particular thing my mother was drawing when I was two years old, was a stylised “dog” character with a bow tie. A cartoon that many would memorise and replicate. When I could not replicate it, (obviously I am two years old!) I refused to even pick up a pencil for a long time. My mother recounts she deliberately did not draw at all for months before I would touch a pencil again. VINEETO: To paint a cartoon might not need much skill. Do you still believe that this is the standard of quality you have to/ want to follow, with the prerogative to do it instantly? Trusting authority can be a crippling belief/ attitude but you are no longer two years old. Unless you deliberately and joyfully let go of your childhood hurts, and with it the parent-child authority, nothing will change in your life. Here is how Richard approached producing art –
That means unless you learn the skill of the craft first, meticulously and patiently, you cannot have “it all happened of its own accord” and art will never eventuate. No amount of expensive equipment can make up for lack in skill and patient training. ANDREW: One of the obvious things from this whole interest in buying musical equipment is how I desire it, but reject it at the same time! I would have no such qualms about buying a car. There is something socially acceptable about even going into a lot of debt to own a car, but even say, $6000 spent of a few high quality musical goods is bringing out all sorts of feelings towards the world and myself. (…) VINEETO: I can only suggest to keep it simple – start with your own objections to feeling good. ANDREW: I feel both proud and embarrassed about this whole
thing. So utterly “bourgeoisie” to be even discussing some “slight” from an otherwise first world
upbringing. Still, I am glad that at least something is happening which is of a different type to the past decade
plus, which was marked with lots of thinking and posting, and plenty of drama. VINEETO: Well, the emotional drama only diminishes when you get tired of being a willing participant/ instigator. Underneath all the attraction to drama and victim hood there is something called common sense – when you give it room to operate … Cheers Vineeto
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