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Peter’s Correspondence on Mailing List C Correspondent No 10
PETER: Hi, In answer to my first letter – RESPONDENT: For myself, I found your rationalism to actualism hard to read/take to heart. My feeling-understandings based on the small amount you expressed; is that you were dreaming then and are still dreaming. But you are fearful of dreaming alone, you want others to be involved in your dream so you feel less alone. Now personally I don’t mind dreaming my dreams ... they are very comfortable, colourful and creative. But I would never invite someone else to dream my dream, because I know they are dreaming one already ... I’m not that interested in having their dream, why should they be having mine??? Here are some things I think are part of your dreaming: PETER: When I first became a Rajneeshee, I was attracted by two things –
RESPONDENT: Now these ‘promises’ were never made ... only made up by you, and in your dreaming you chose to believe them. PETER: I think you will find books on the New Man, Rajneesh’s vision for Humanity, etc. still available but given that they failed they might not still be ‘in print’. They are certainly not favoured topics of conversation since the collapse of Rajneeshpuram. RESPONDENT: For the rest of your discourse, sales pitch, what ever it is ... you certainly make being a Sannyasin ... no you never said Sannyasin did you? You make being a Rajneeshee sound repulsive and I guess being one could be! (depending on the dreamer) Now had you tried sannyas perhaps you’d be having a different story. PETER: Well I only tried it for about 15 years, some must be clocking up 25 or more by now. Have you tried longer, or are you intending to get Enlightened soon? Do you have a time frame? RESPONDENT: Well Peter, there’s not much more for me to say, you are in control of your dream. You too have the ability to allow contentment, peace of mind when you are doing whatever it is you do. You can even allow the world to be worldly... all the options still exist, but an option is not the same as a promise. Options come with personal responsibility. PETER: Option implies choice, and yes, I certainly exercise choice based firmly on what is silly and what is sensible, what is a fact and what is merely a belief, what works and what doesn’t work. It takes the angst, doubt and fear out of choice and is magically freeing. I don’t even have to ‘feel’ responsible any more given that I am no longer malicious (hence no guilt, shame or repentance arise) nor am I sorrowful (hence no sadness, compassion or resentment arise) RESPONDENT: I hope you find what you look for. All I could ever offer would just be more Promises and Options. PETER: Yeah, I know. RESPONDENT: P.S. The night before last I had a wonderful dream that is still yanking my chains. I was travelling in a mini van type of bus with a group of people and Osho. We were going to meet up with a large group of people and we were asking Osho if he was willing to speak to the people... He turned around and looked deep into my eyes and said: ‘I’m amazed that after all these years you are still attached to my words!’ and I responded, ‘oh, no, it’s not for me... It’s just that so many people there have never heard you speak’... and he just smiles and turns back around in his seat... But of course I do have attachments to his words. And I watch them all the time, the attachments and the words floating around in my brain. But two days later from that dream, I still feel that love stuff from him and from me for him swelling my chest...how can I let go of an attachment like that? It feels the same as it did many years ago... It’s weird too...I’ve never owned a white robe and no plans of getting one. PETER: The whole Eastern spiritual world is based on ‘feeling’ devotion and love, either for a god or a Master. This feeling good, when practiced assiduously, leads to bliss, Divine Love, Universal Compassion, and Timelessness, Oneness with the Whole, Truth, That, God or whatever. If successful one becomes One, self becomes Self, separation becomes Unity, and away we go again as yet another Divine Saviour is born, to eventually ‘leave the body’, leaving yet another Religion on earth. It is all a passionate dream which most people can see clearly played out in other Religious beliefs but love, loyalty, devotion and gratitude prevent from seeing let alone acknowledging it in themselves. It is an insidious trap, one at which the Enlightened Ones are indeed Masters at playing.
PETER: When I first became a Rajneeshee, I was attracted by two things –
RESPONDENT: Now these ‘promises’ were never made ... only made up by you, and in your dreaming you chose to believe them. PETER: I think you will find books on the new man, Rajneesh’s vision for Humanity, etc. still available but given that they failed they might not still be ‘in print’. They are certainly not favoured topics of conversation since the collapse of Rajneeshpuram. RESPONDENT: Peter, this comment does not address the issue of you perceiving promises that were never made and as a result of your perception the resentment you now seem to project. Yes I have read the books you speak of, and they are not a defence nor an explanation for your having perceived promises that were never made. ALWAYS the ranch experience was described as an ‘Experiment to provoke God’. There are never any promises or guarantees when experimenting with the unknown. Perhaps you still could find some benefit in taking responsibility for choice of action. No one forced you to believe anything. You made choices. You looked for and found what didn’t exist. The Mind is an awesome resource. As for your notion that the experiment failed, I see no possible way you could know that, as the experiment continues even if it is only with me. Are you covering up your feelings of failing by projecting them on to everyone else? Does this help you to feel less? PETER: Well I only tried it for about 15 years, some must be clocking up 25 or more by now. Have you tried longer, or are you intending to get Enlightened soon? Do you have a time frame? RESPONDENT: These comments do not feel like they are coming from a content man that is no longer malicious. (Which is a interesting catch phrase common to your and Vineeto’s posts. Does it’s use become dogmatic?) So you did whatever you did for 15 years... What is the significance of comparing it with some who may have been 25 years or whatever I have been doing?? As I see it, this comparison does not follow logic. What about the millions of people who have never been Rajneeshees or Sannyasins. Do they then become the wise one by your equation and reasoning? Here you also missed the comparing of being a Rajneeshee and a Sannyasin. You talk as through they are the same thing. But they are two distinctly different words. For me I found there to be a great difference between the two as I have been both. (currently, I function as a individual) But being a Rajneeshee is one who does as instructed, no responsibility, a drone, worker, whose value is found in being a part of the overall unit. Rajneeshees are who built the ranch. Being a Sannyasin for me was/is about making choices. and the choices are taking personal responsible or avoiding personal responsibility. Both are the available options, and still there are no guarantees of outcomes regardless of one’s choices. PETER: So you have got me off the couch again and on to the keyboard. You have written on the Sannyas list so I will respond to you here. I find it amazing that you are so willing and eager to be critical in writing of something that is offered as an alternative without even bothering to read my journal. As you obviously don’t know what I am talking about it is impossible for me to offer any useful comment back to you. I will post the Peace chapter of my journal which may give you a glimpse of what it is that I am talking about. It is relevant to the two things that first attracted me to Sannyas and Rajneesh. Just to remind you, from a previous post, I wrote – When I first became a Rajneeshee, I was attracted by two things –
I’ll post what I wrote as an attachment so those likely to be offended can click DELETE now. As for me replying personally to everyone, I am not a fast typist, nor am I interested in anything other than trying to seduce people to, at least, read my story. Who knows, someone reading these words may be interested in exploring something different. Somebody else may be interested in becoming happy and harmless, as his or her goal in life. Attached: Peter’s Journal, ‘Peace’.
RESPONDENT: I’m posting this because I was disappointed that Peter was unable to direct his replies to me as though he was talking with another person. He seemed much more interested in his Anti-Osho sermon. So for no useful purpose, or any expectations I will just put out some of my thoughts and feels here. PETER: Well you stubbornly refuse to read anything of my story and goad me for an answer to your last post so I will give you further ammunition to criticize me. It’s all good fun and at least we are talking about life and what it is to be a human being. My version and the sense I have made of being a human being varies so radically from the tried and true that all I get is objections anyway. I know it is because I am spoiling people’s ‘game’ and it would not matter at all that people are as they are except for the fact of all the sorrow and violence, wars, rapes, suicides, etc. Having discovered a way to become happy and harmless, I decided to write my story, naively thinking others would at least be curious. But nobody wants to change, it seems – everybody is happy the way they are, or so they say. So away we go. * PETER: I think you will find books on the new man, Rajneesh’s vision for Humanity, etc. still available but given that they failed they might not still be ‘in print’. They are certainly not favoured topics of conversation since the collapse of Rajneeshpuram. RESPONDENT: Peter, this comment does not address the issue of you perceiving promises that were never made and as a result of your perception the resentment you now seem to project. PETER: I have neither resentment nor gratitude towards Osho. To have been a part of such a spiritual movement around a living Enlightened one and be witness to the eventual formation of a religion on his death has been extraordinarily useful in understanding the whole meta-physical spiritual world. RESPONDENT: Yes I have read the books you speak of, and they are not a defence nor an explanation for your having perceived promises that were never made. ALWAYS the ranch experience was described as an ‘Experiment to provoke God’. There are never any promises or guarantees when experimenting with the unknown. PETER: I can only say what it meant for me – I was looking for peace of mind for myself and for peace on the planet. And I see that Sannyas experiment failed, not only for me, but for thousands of others. I know of many people who have yet to recover from the Ranch experience or for whom the enthusiasm for change or challenge simply withered away. What are your goals in life and in being a Sannyasin? What is it that you are seeking in life? RESPONDENT: Perhaps you still could find some benefit in taking responsibility for choice of action. No one forced you to believe anything. You made choices. You looked for and found what didn’t exist. PETER: Of course I was a Sannyasin willingly. It was at the time the best game to play in town. Along with thousands of other Westerners I was seduced by the exotic East and it’s religions. I thought that the solution for me and solution to the mess that is human interaction on the planet was to be found there. But I was wrong, and it took quite an effort to admit it. RESPONDENT: The Mind is an awesome resource. PETER: Whereas human intelligence, freed of all of the social conditioning (particularly the belief in God or some form of afterlife and immortality) and the animal instinctual reactions is capable of such clarity and common sense that it has to be experienced to be appreciated. Such is the functioning that I am capable of understanding the whole of the Human Condition of malice and sorrow as I am immediately outside of it and no longer dwell in the normal world or in the spiritual world. It is the actual physical universe, not some ‘inner’ world of imagination. RESPONDENT: As for your notion that the experiment failed, I see no possible way you could know that, as the experiment continues even if it is only with me. PETER: I have written in detail of my experiences and why the spiritual path failed not only for me but for millions of others down the ages, but you stubbornly refuse to want to read anything of my story. What you do with your life is your business, after all, it is your life. I say that as a fact. And it is so perfect that it is that way. I am simply offering an alternative for anyone who has doubts about the spiritual path, its workings and its results. RESPONDENT: Are you covering up your feelings of failing by projecting them on to everyone else? Does this help you to feel less? PETER: No. I have spent some18 months ridding myself of the feelings such that the need to either repress them or express them ever comes up. I can’t tell you how good it is to be free of the remorseless and fickle emotional churnings and thoughts generated by a sense of ‘self’. RESPONDENT: For the rest of your discourse, sales pitch, what ever it is... you certainly make being a Sannyasin...no you never said Sannyasin, did you? You make being a Rajneeshee sound repulsive and I guess being one could be! (depending on the dreamer) PETER: Being a follower or believer in Osho is no more or less ‘repulsive’ than believing in any other God or God-man. The major trouble with believing in Gods is that people gather in groups to do it and then fight each other as to whose God is speaking the Truth, who is Right, who is the Best, who is the Only God, and this results in all the religious wars, persecutions, repressions, moralities, superiorities, etc. So my comments are not personally directed at Osho or Sannyasins, but are about the whole spiritual world. It is just that I spent 15 years with Rajneesh, so I know that particular version very well. RESPONDENT: Now had you tried sannyas perhaps you’d be having a different story. PETER: Well I only tried it for about 15 years, some must be clocking up 25 or more by now. Have you tried longer, or are you intending to get Enlightened soon? Do you have a time frame? RESPONDENT: These comments do not feel like they are coming from a content man that is no longer malicious. (Which is a interesting catch phrase common to your and Vineeto’s posts. Does its use become dogmatic?) PETER: It’s just that no one seems to worry that we humans all fight each other and live in fear of each other. No-one seems to care. I do find it strange. RESPONDENT: So you did whatever you did for 15 years... What is the significance of comparing it with some who may have been 25 years or whatever I have been doing?? As I see it, this comparison does not follow logic. What about the millions of people who have never been Rajneeshees or Sannyasins. Do they then become the wise one by your equation and reasoning? PETER: I have told you of my aims in being a Sannyasin, have written of my experiences and now put it out so others can abuse me freely because I have dared to question the Sacred beliefs and Ancient wisdom. I am always curious as to what others are searching for, do they have any aims in life, and if they are searching do they have a time frame or seek specific results and changes in themselves. The other curious thing that happens is because I ‘dare’ to question the existence of God, then I am seen as being either a Guru or a Devil. And this is despite the fact that I firmly state that Gods, Gurus, Devils and Demons dwell only in the passionate domain of human imagination. That it is all a gigantic fairy-tale, only made ‘real’ by the re-telling for millennia. RESPONDENT: Here you also missed the comparing of being a Rajneeshee and a Sannyasin. You talk as though they are the same thing. But they are two distinctly different words. For me I found there to be a great difference between the two as I have been both. (currently, I function as a individual) But being a Rajneeshee is one who does as instructed, no responsibility, a drone, worker, whose value is found in being a part of the overall unit. Rajneeshees are who built the ranch. PETER: I take it you weren’t at Rajneeshpuram. That was the time that Rajneesh first began to establish the religion with the name Rajneeshees. RESPONDENT: Being a Sannyasin for me was/is about making choices. And the choices are taking personal responsibility or avoiding personal responsibility. Both are the available options, and still there are no guarantees of outcomes regardless of one’s choices. PETER: So does this mean that it doesn’t matter what one does, it is all right anyway. I read a bit of Ramesh Balsekar the other day and he said it didn’t matter if you killed someone as it would have been God’s will anyway. I truck with none of this. I enjoy freely and sensibly exercising my will – no God’s will operates in this body. * PETER: Have you tried longer, or are you intending to get Enlightened soon? Do you have a time frame? RESPONDENT: This just seems to be a personal belittling insult, and I could (if I wanted) be additionally insulted by your thinking I lack the intelligence to see your comments as malicious veiled in insincerity. PETER: As I said above, I was just curious about you. You can know all you want about me by reading, but I was trying to find out about your aspirations and experiences. Oh. Well. RESPONDENT: Well Peter, there’s not much more for me to say, you are in control of your dream. You too have the ability to allow contentment, peace of mind when you are doing whatever it is you do. You can even allow the world to be worldly... all the options still exist, but an option is not the same as a promise. Options come with personal responsibility. PETER: Firstly, I do not dream any more, nor do I have any need to as the actual sensate experience of being here in the actual world far exceeds my wildest dreams anyway. Secondly, I don’t allow contentment or peace of mind, it is my on-going experience 24hrs. a day, and I get to do pleasurable things like eat superbly tasting food, enjoy delicious sex whenever I want, watch TV, type letters, etc. The options I exercise, apart from doing what is sensible, is usually around where to eat lunch and when to have sex. Apart from these few I find myself fully occupied in doing whatever I am doing at this moment. Living fully is an activity that involves me to such an extent that there is simply no room for any ‘self’-centred thoughts, feelings, or instinctual emotional responses. Option implies choice, and yes I certainly exercise choice based firmly on what is silly and what is sensible, what is a fact and what is merely a belief, what works and what doesn’t work. It takes the angst, doubt and fear out of choice and is magically freeing. I don’t even have to ‘feel’ responsible any more given that I am no longer malicious (hence no guilt, shame or repentance arise) nor am I sorrowful (hence no sadness, compassion or resentment arise). RESPONDENT: The impression I get from these words is they come from a Mind enjoying its delusion. But like I said before, I too enjoy a good dream, so I’m sorry if I disturb yours, it’s not entirely my intention, but I guess I get a kick out of brat every now and then too. I hope you find what you look for. All I could ever offer would just be more Promises and Options. P.S. The night before last I had a wonderful dream that is still yanking my chains. I was travelling in a mini van type of bus with a group of people and Osho. We were going to meet up with a large group of people and we were asking Osho if he was willing to speak to the people...He turned around and looked deep into my eyes and said ‘I am amazed that after all these years you are still attached to my words’ and I responded, ‘Oh, no, It’s not for me...It’s just that so many people there have never heard you speak.’.. and he just smiles and turns back around in his seat... But of course I do have attachments to his words. And I watch them all the time, the attachments and the words floating around in my brain. But two days later from that dream, I still feel that love stuff from him and from me for him swelling my chest...how can I let go of an attachment like that? It feels the same as it did many years ago... It’s weird too... I’ve never owned a white robe and no plans of getting one. PETER: The whole Eastern spiritual world is based on ‘feeling’ devotion and love, either for a god or a Master. This feeling good, when practiced assiduously, leads to bliss, Divine Love, Universal Compassion, and Timelessness, Oneness with the Whole, Truth, That, God or whatever. If successful one becomes One, self becomes Self, separation becomes Unity, and away we go again as yet another Divine Saviour is born, to eventually ‘leave the body’, leaving yet another Religion on earth. It is all a passionate dream which most people can see clearly played out in other Religious beliefs but love, loyalty, devotion and gratitude prevent them from seeing, let alone acknowledging it, in themselves. It is an insidious trap, one at which the Enlightened Ones are indeed Masters at playing. RESPONDENT: Your perception of whole Eastern spiritual world is of no value to me. After all it’s just a limited / edited / interpreted / coloured / perception. And we all know how flawed one’s perception can be. PETER: Perception is definitely a flawed way of looking at the world. Much better to rely on facts. And curiously enough those who have read my story have not disputed any of the facts. At this stage only very few have had the courage to read something that is challenging to accepted wisdom and belief, so it’s early days. RESPONDENT: And by going into this rap...which seems to have become a repeated practiced rehearsed speech, you totally missed communicating with me. Why should you or I think I’d be interested in another speech? The words come from so far away, they don’t come even close to relating to you relating to me. It looks as through you are continuing to avoid being in touch with what is real in your life. And I do not perceive much real in what you have said. So I’ll offer you another opportunity to come closer. Talk to me if you like, but don’t bother talking at me, no lectures. I get enough of them in school. PETER: My experience is it is impossible to communicate factually and directly with someone who is firmly locked into a particular belief or concept. All I ever get is objections, but I understand as it was the same for me when I first considered the fact that ‘everyone has got it 180 degrees wrong’ and that included me. That meant I had to question EVERYTHING I took to be true, right, good, Sacred, Holy, Wise, Absolute, given, common knowledge, my experience, etc. All of the social conditioning, all of who I thought I was, all of who I felt I was. It was a big job, the bulk of which took some 12 months, and the major obstacles were, in my experience, pride and fear. So I’ll resist a rave about how good it is to be free of it all, because you will think I’m lecturing you. * P.S. I had planned to post a bit about my discoveries around sex but you didn’t read my last attachment and this is longish anyway...
PETER: I see you have been taking a peek at my mails before deleting them. I don’t expect you to agree with what I am saying at all but I welcome your scrutiny. RESPONDENT: So Peter-Peter... Your endless posts have worn me down. Here I am attempting another response to the ‘words’. (I’ll call them just words, as I can’t find any useful and productive words to describe them that would not be overly mean & ugly...) I find that I start reading Vineeto’s and your posts... and you both start out actually addressing the person you are writing to... making a connection... but after a few lines you fall back into your robot rap... I-me-Richard – alternative-we-great-experiencers – here-save-world-bla,bla... and I then go click-delete. But this last post to No. 27 you didn’t wait long at all before demonstrating your projections. PETER to No 27: Yes indeed, and it is a thing I make no apologies for. Millions, if not
billions, have assiduously practiced their methods, sat in their presence, and gave their lives in loving gratitude and humiliation for nil result
– except for a tiny few who get ‘it’ and then get to become the ones to whom others then practice their methods, sit in their presence, and
give their lives in gratitude and humiliation ... RESPONDENT: You seem to build your whole rap on speculations and projections. Then from there spin off into the clouds with your new found way to be. But if you start with building on delusions where can you end but with anything but delusions?? Millions? Billions? give their lives? for nil?? just speculation and projection. As far as I am concerned...these people devoted what they wished, learned what they learned, and went on to live long productive peaceful loving ordinary lives... maybe some didn’t. So what! PETER: ‘Millions, if not billions’ is a reference to all the devotees of Eastern spirituality (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism, Taoism, Zen, etc.) in all the thousands of years, many, many of whom spent their lives secluded in monasteries or ashrams (in Tibet, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Korea, India etc.) or devoting hours of their days in meditation, ‘watching’, praying, or the like. The recent influx and western interest in spirituality is but a ‘blimp’ on the vast sweep of history. The point of my statement was that once this became evident to me I was able to put my position in perspective. The failure rate of producing profound individual awakenings (Enlightenment) of the Eastern religions became startlingly evident, as did my arrogance in assuming that I could do any better. The other issue was that despite (or because of) the numbers, sincerity and effort of all these people the countries had appalling levels of poverty, disease, corruption, repression of women, and often downright theocracies. I fail to see this as speculation and projection. A study of history and an open-eyed visit to the East will still confirm this to be the case in many countries. * PETER to No 27: This insanity has gone on unquestioned since unquestioning obedience in the name
of ‘trust’ and ‘faith’ is the inherent price one pays when joining the various groups involved. RESPONDENT: Again more speculation and projections. What the fuck do you know about what people have or have not questioned. PETER: I made it a point when I came across Richard and his writings to check out for myself the facts of the situation rather than merely believe him or blindly defend my own beliefs. In the many, many books that I read (and re-read in some cases) I found no one who had dared to question the whole package of both Eastern and Western religions, yet alone offer an alternative path to freedom. Many do indeed question bits and pieces now and then, criticizing others as being not as good as them, or flawed in some way as they have the only true message, but this is usually only a self-serving exercise aimed at attracting more followers. So, if any have questioned and come up with any other solution to remaining ‘normal’ apart from becoming Divine, they seem to have kept it to themselves. * PETER to No 27: ‘Ignorant self serving Rolls-Royce driving Guru Osho’ are certainly not my
words, if that is what you are implying. To attribute them to me is but a cheap shot that misses its mark completely. You seem to be putting words
into my mouth and then become offended by what you then claim I said. This tactic is the cause of so much conflict, abuse and mis-understanding in
the world, used equally by the peace lovers as it is by the war-mongers. We humans love to fight, and if not much is happening and we are bored,
we invent something that we feel someone is doing or thinking or saying, simply to get offended. RESPONDENT: This is something you know of, you have a very similar version. It is how you build everything you write of. You start with a premise of projections and speculations... give them your twist and poof! you have the foundation on which to build. PETER: Okay, tell me where I have mis-quoted someone on this list, or have put words into other peoples mouths... or some ‘similar version’. Otherwise you are merely proving my point. I start with the facts of the situation, rather than the commonly held belief and build my case firmly and trenchantly on these facts. The ‘twist’ that you so rightly observe is actually a new and radical way of looking at things. It is the functioning of intelligence freed of societal and spirit-ual conditioning and beliefs. The ‘firmly and trenchantly’ comes from intelligence freed of instinctual passions, in this case power and authority. All I am doing is reporting the facts, and this is what is painful to hear as the ‘self’ dearly wishes to cling to the fairy-tale beliefs in God, an after-life, immortality, etc. for ‘its’ very survival. RESPONDENT: You decide what is/has been insanity, what people have done, their results, how everything and everyone has failed... and then you offer solutions to what never was more than projections and speculations. Only in your delusion do your speculations become facts. PETER: I decide nothing of the sort. We humans, with our programmed separate sense of ‘self,’ imagine that we are individuals operating with a free will, but a quick study of history, behavioural studies, sociology, psychology, religious texts reveal that we are all instinctually programmed with fear, aggression, nurture and desire. This programming is further overlaid with social conditioning – Western, American, Christian, etc., and we then adopt our role that we act out in society. Despite the imposition of ethics and morals, and adherence to spiritual and religious teachings we still have nothing resembling peace on this planet either individually or collectively. I fail to see this as a delusion. Don’t you occasionally watch the news on television? RESPONDENT: This is the same type of situation I wrote to you before, with your ‘promises’ that you perceived, and then were never delivered. There for you created opportunity for you to be offended. This offence is projected as the failure of Osho and All Gurus throughout time, and then you can offer your solution...The New 3rd way... (but I did notice in other posts since then you stopped referring to your perceptions as promises...) PETER: I take it that you are referring to the post when I stated the reasons I became a Sannyasin (to quote) –
You will notice I said the promise ‘at’ rather than the promise ‘of’ since, even in those heady days, I had the sense to realise it was up to me. As for the New Man – ‘Zorba the Buddha’ – that particular dream died for me, and many others I know of, when the Ranch folded. The dream failed there and then, and any mention of it to Sannyasins only results in either blank looks and statements such as yours. Maybe I was the only one who gave any credence to the concept of a New Man. Maybe I was just naďve ... (I certainly was gullible). Were you around in the Ranch days? If I got the whole ‘Zorba the Buddha’ bit wrong, tell me how you saw it. What are you expecting from Sannyas? * PETER to No 27: I went back through some archives the other day and the only sense of humour
readily apparent was people sending in jokes by others. Apart from that I found some who were serious in their spiritual beliefs, a lot of quotes
from many Masters and pundits, some cat-fights and a bit of social stuff. And I come along, an ex-Sannyasin, willing and able to challenge the
teachings, encouraging a lively discussion about life, the universe and what it is to be a human being and the standard response is – you’re
too serious! RESPONDENT: For me, you may be willing to challenge, but you fall short of being able. I’m just an ordinary guy... distorted in some my ways... anyway, all I am able to put out are just opinions when discussing the lives of you and others. I am content with knowing only my own experience. Since I can know only my self, I know you can only know your self. I do not question your experience. But I do disregard your discussions and conclusions of others lives as delusional gibberish. Only because you are unable to accept that you also have only opinions and you speculate on situations and you draw conclusions... These are fine for conversation... but that’s not what you are here for. PETER: I too am an ordinary guy, flesh and blood, born of sperm meeting egg, with a full healthy set of instincts and social conditioning, good member of society, tiny bit of a rebel in early life, settled down to wife, 2 kids, two cars. Then ‘normal’ life was shattered with my wife leaving and I set out on the spiritual path. The death of my son at the age of 13 intensified my search for freedom – as contemplating death often does – to the extent that I couldn’t hang in around the religion I clearly saw forming around a dead master. And then I ran into a guy who offered another path and so I took it. That’s all. But what it has done is give me a method to dissolve my ‘self’, the psychological and psychic entity I ‘think’ and ‘feel’ myself to be. This dissolution has now occurred to the point that the brain of this flesh and blood body is able to operate with such clarity that I am able to report facts of what it is to be a human being free of both ‘normal’ and ‘spiritual’ beliefs. What you do with these facts is, of course, entirely up to you. I am not certainly not saying believe me – but I thoroughly recommend the journey of discovery to question beliefs and determine the facts. The exploration into the human psyche is the next essential frontier of discovery. * PETER to No 27: I’m just here fishing for any other intrepid pioneers who may be dissatisfied
with the results obtained on the spirit-ual path, and are ready and willing to explore and investigate the Human Condition a little deeper. RESPONDENT: I suspect any fish that gets caught up in your net... will be an intriguing specimen indeed! PETER: Well said! I would only add that he/she ... will be an ‘intrigued’ specimen as well. So, it’s getting late on a semi-tropical summers evening. Time to stop for a coffee and a cigarette on the balcony. We have a ‘Night Jasmine’ plant next door that permeates the air with an almost tastable potent tropical aroma. So, goodnight to you ..
PETER: ‘Millions, if not billions’ is a reference to all the devotees of Eastern spirituality (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism, Taoism, Zen, etc.) in all the thousands of years, many, many of whom spent their lives secluded in monasteries or ashrams (in Tibet, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Korea, India etc.) or devoting hours of their days in meditation, ‘watching’, praying, or the like. The recent influx and western interest in spirituality is but a ‘blimp’ on the vast sweep of history. The point of my statement was that once this became evident to me I was able to put my position in perspective. The failure rate of producing profound individual awakenings (Enlightenment) of the Eastern religions became startlingly evident, as did my arrogance in assuming that I could do any better. The other issue was that despite (or because of) the numbers, sincerity and effort of all these people the countries had appalling levels of poverty, disease, corruption, repression of women, and often downright theocracies. I fail to see this as speculation and projection. A study of history and an open-eyed visit to the East will still confirm this to be the case in many countries. RESPONDENT: This response is a example of the twist I said you put on the topics... This is what I said; ‘Millions?Billions? give their lives? for nil?? just speculation and projection. As far as I am concerned... these people devoted what they wished, learned what they learned, and went on to live long productive peaceful loving ordinary lives... maybe some didn’t. So what! PETER: On re-reading my response I see that I clearly made the point of what it meant for me – that in the light of these facts I was able to clearly put my position in perspective rather than merely following what everyone else was and had been doing for millennia. If this is of no concern to you, so be it. It does nothing to alter the facts. RESPONDENT: The issue I have with your speculations and projections does not have to do with history but with the judgement that you recolor and edit the history in order to create support for your opinions – that you like to call facts. How you choose to view, edit and interpret history has no bearing on the reality of the history itself. PETER: No, you yourself said ... ‘as far as I am concerned’ which, as it turned out, meant that you are ‘not concerned’ – as evidenced by ‘So what!’ I, on the other hand was vitally concerned as to what I was doing with my life and what other human beings had done with their lives. Had it bought them the promised peace of mind and had this whole spiritual pursuit contributed to bringing forth a state of peace on the planet? My own open-eyed direct observation of Eastern Counties, a common sensical reading of the Ancient texts, and 17 years of intensive search on the spiritual path forced me to the pride-shattering conclusion that I had been sold a dummy and that I had fallen for it hook, line and sinker. RESPONDENT: You are unable to know the experiences of others. PETER: There is nothing unique in the Human Condition. One is either normal or spiritual. I have had the experience of 32 years of ‘normal life and 17 years of spiritual life so I see myself as well qualified. I am also well qualified in the ‘new business’ of actualism, although by no means as well qualified as Richard. He was Enlightened for 11 years until he saw through the sham. Mind you, writing on this list is certainly an eye-opener as to the reactions one gets when one dares to question anyone’s dearly-held beliefs. RESPONDENT: Your unfulfilled expectations of specific rewards and results has nothing to do with the History and lives of the people who lived it. You are not in possession of authority (except in you mind) to determine lives were lived and given for nil...or anything else. You’re welcome to have your opinion. But, it was the judgement of lives given for nil that I said was speculation and the facts you created out of the speculation is what I called projections. PETER: So, in the world according to No 10, I am allowed to have an opinion but the sin of all sins is to make a judgement. If by judgement you mean the ability to judge wisely in matters affecting action, good sense, discretion then I make judgements based on all the facts I can gather. I then make a judgement on what is the sensible action to take. The operation of common sense is essential if one is to be free of such moralistic and self-serving nonsense as ‘thou shalt not judge’. RESPONDENT: A fact is: a piece of information presented as having objective reality; (objective reality would be undistorted-actual reality). PETER: If a fact to you is undistorted-actual reality then does that mean you call a tree a tree, or do you call it a ‘piece of information’? Is the keyboard in front of you a fact as in visible, touchable, audible when you type – i.e. is it actual? Were there in fact millions, if not billions of followers on the spiritual path over millennia? Is this a ‘piece of information’ or were they flesh and blood actual people? Are these not facts? * PETER: But what it has done is give me a method to dissolve my ‘self’, the psychological and psychic entity I ‘think’ and ‘feel’ myself to be. This dissolution has now occurred to the point that the brain of this flesh and blood body is able to operate with such clarity that I am able to report facts of what it is to be a human being free of both ‘normal’ and ‘spiritual’ beliefs. What you do with these facts is, of course, entirely up to you. I am certainly not saying believe me RESPONDENT: I propose that you offer not facts but theory and opinion. I also propose you at times misrepresent these theories and opinions as facts. PETER: You can propose away to your hearts content, it won’t change the facts. * PETER: I see you have been taking a peak at my mails before deleting them. I don’t expect you to agree with what I am saying at all but I welcome your scrutiny. RESPONDENT: I am glad you don’t expect agreement from me ... I won’t be disappointing you this time. PETER: Well, if you regard a fact ‘as a piece of information presented as having ... undistorted-actual reality’, then I’m certainly not holding my breath. But I always enjoy the chance to chat about these things.
Peter’s Text ©The Actual Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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