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(List D refers to Richard’s List D
Vineeto’s Correspondence with Adam Cl. on Discuss Actualism Forum
ADAM-Cl: This is very interesting subject for me and covering aspects that have been on my mind a lot lately. VINEETO: Hi Adam, If you are referring to the articles called "From Basic Freedom to Full Actual Freedom" then please note that these were written mainly for those people who have already become actually free. Unless you are actually free, you may have misunderstood or mis-applied a lot of those "aspects that have been on my mind a lot lately". What you have written further down about "Vineeto mentioning", as in wanting "to skip to the goal" may just as easily apply to you as well. ADAM-Cl: One of the realisations I keep circling back to is this passivity to me. An expectation that things will happen of their own accord but in these instances I lack the will or intent to actualise things. It is not just about actualism, you can substitute fitness, work development, interpersonal relations, personal interest projects and it is the same pattern. VINEETO: Is this "passivity" perhaps the reason you were reading about what happens after becoming actually free? ADAM-Cl: I want the benefits without the work. I might be paraphrasing but I recall Vineeto mentioning that in her early days she wanted to skip to the goal of being actually free too and in essence that was evidence of a resentment to being alive, rather than sincerely enjoying and being harmless in this moment of being alive. It is like some form of learned helplessness I am suffering from. I am having to unpick and unlearn it and accept my active engagement and agency is required to do this method or actually have results in any aspect of my life. The success at least in relative terms of more felicitous moments, EE’s and less mental suffering you would think would be ample evidence to maintain momentum but it is not always the case. I have to have the will and agency to be doing the method and have the intent, there is no autopilot mode, quick win or cheat mode. VINEETO: When you recalled Vineeto reporting from ‘her’ experience that jumping ahead "was evidence of a resentment to being alive", did you inquire into yourself if you were also prone to such a resentment? And furthermore, if/when you found this being the case, did you do something to overcome such resentment? I am only asking because such a resentment of being alive can make the afflicted person lethargic, half-hearted, lackadaisical and listless, if not also angry and anxious. However, you make no mention in your post about resentment and instead put your emotional situation down to "learned helplessness". It is somewhat indicative passing the buck to those who taught you this "helplessness" you are now suffering from, and suggesting that you have nothing to do with it and therefore cannot do anything about it – in other words, a typical expression of passivity. It doesn’t really matter how you acquired this passivity, and as such don’t need to "unpick
and unlearn" it but instead decide to take responsibility for how you are today. You can pay fascinated
attention to how you feel, each moment again, and then get back to feeling good. Take notice of the trigger
which caused the less-than-feeling good mood and once you are feeling good again, find out why it happened and
discover what you can change in you not to have it happen again. I have described this process in
almost every post I have written in the last 18 months, and Richard detailed it in ‘This Moment of Being Alive’ ADAM-Cl: With certain mental health issues they can really diminish your sense of agency or will. Now that I have made headway with depression and anxiety, I notice there is a strong element about their perpetuation that relates to agency and the sphere of influence to change one’s circumstances. There are many aspects of one’s life that are uncontrollable such that physically and emotionally painful (at least for those of us not free or in abeyance/PCE) experiences can happen and somehow one can cement a mindset of hopelessness and futility as regards the application of one’s will or intent. VINEETO: Important: should you receive any kind of professional care and/or medication for
your "mental health issues" such as "depression and anxiety" then actualism is not
for you – that would be counterproductive. It is vital that you read the ‘Disclaimer’ Besides, with a firm belief that "many aspects of one’s life that are uncontrollable", such as emotional pain, actualism won’t be of any use to you until you dismantle/ abandon this belief. ADAM-Cl: It is as though I had formulated a belief that getting
to out from control or basically free would happen of its own accord. It is not about my agency but some spontaneous
event that will occur like radioactive decay. VINEETO: In case you are not in professional care for your "mental health issues" I strongly advise to forget any imagination about "getting to out from control or basically free" and start from where you are at. Aim for feeling good as much as possible while with diligence and sensible contemplation
recognizing any obstacles to feeling good you may discover, such as a basic resentment of being alive, habitual
listlessness (passivity), anxiety and depression (for suggestions and explanations see Actualvineeto,
Selected Correspondence
ADAM-Cl: Hi Vineeto, Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the links provided, I didn’t realise there was some new stuff uploaded on the site. I am a bit behind on reading posts on this forum at the moment so I am not up to date with the latest information. I am also reading in a more random order than my previous “chronological order only” approach. Yes, there is much I can see that I have misunderstood over the years even on even the basics. I think I have reached that degree of awareness to know what I don’t know though and there is nothing to be gained from self deception. I sort of keep a mental bookmark of things that I will keep aware of for future reference, if they are unfamiliar, to see if there will eventually be an experiential reference to what is described, in much the same way I did with a PCE and pure intent in the beginning of sincerely practicing the method. Also, aspects discussed in more advanced topics sometimes reveal insights I had missed or misunderstood into the basics of the method or help with a current personal blocker. I like to read and learn from yourself and others it is more out of curiosity rather than a reflection of the point I am at. I once had this weird love induced ASC and I recalled accounts from other ASC experiences helped me quickly avoid getting sucked in for any longer than necessary, in that way I was glad I had read about subjects that I had not had any experience with yet as it provided a safety net of sorts. I think I am getting a much better understanding of what I have being doing wrong. The passivity for sure plays a part, I think also I am beginning to be able to look at my own practice without any underlying performance anxiety about any personal failures. Look at others who have been involved for less time and had more success and more honestly evaluate what I have done wrong or misunderstood and why they have been able to progress where I haven’t. Without any shame, embarrassment, etc and just the evaluation of the facts. VINEETO: Hi Adam, Thank you for your feedback. It is indeed much more fortuitous if/when you can evaluate what you are doing regarding actualism “without any shame, embarrassment, etc”. Hence getting back to feeling good is essential in order to be able to think more clearly. ADAM-Cl: There is definitely an underlying resentment to life that had become a core belief for me. Even as much to believe the universe was actively against me and wanted me to suffer, an absurd belief I know. The resentment and passivity I notice seem to happen from time to time and more likely when encountering a more stronger emotional event, but their frequency and duration are definitely reducing over the years, in that I am getting better at getting back to a felicitous baseline and more quickly. It seems so obvious when you write it so clearly, it kind of made me chuckle at myself. There is a habitual aspect to a lot of emotional triggers sometimes it seems. VINEETO: That is excellent – you need a sense of humour to be successful when looking at how you tick, and investigate your own psyche. ADAM-Cl: I think I have sometimes found a certain trigger can be a bit more elusive or nebulous for me and it doesn’t always become clear and straight forward to understand why that keeps triggering and there can be a bit of repetitiveness until that insight is gained. I literally didn’t process the link between passivity and resentment but now it is clear to me after this exchange. Another blind spot identified lol. VINEETO: Resentment is one of the most stubborn obstacles for many interested in actualism – to complain about life seems to be a habitual past-time of a lot of human beings. If you know that you harbour resentment to being alive I recommend this to be the starting point and focus of your investigations into the human condition – how else will you be able to genuinely enjoy being here and appreciate this marvellous universe we are all living in.
Additionally I can recommend the other excerpts from Richard’s correspondence on resentment ADAM-Cl: When explaining the aspect of cementing a mindset from negative emotional and physical experiences, I meant past tense of what derailed me for several years from actualism, not that it is my current experience or belief, just for clarity. I experientially know that not to be the case now. Additionally, I have been treated for depression and anxiety and I am now discharged and no longer on medication or under therapy. As my mental illness occurred whilst already a practicing actualist after a traumatic event, I was very aware of the disclaimer, as I brought it up to my friend who introduced me to the actualism as he was diagnosed with depression before me and I believe it was a big reason why he never made progress. Eventually I conceded that I needed to get medical help and stopped involvement with AF for some time. Since recovering I have found myself interested in actualism again and despite being more busy recently I am trying to participate on the forum more, rather than be a silent witness as I was during most of my time on the Topica and Yahoo forums. VINEETO: I appreciate your feedback and clarification. ADAM-Cl: I am now following your recommendations. As regards starting where I am at, I realised there were beliefs around being exceptional too. Some imagined narrative that I would excel in the application of the method and achieve success quicker this time around. VINEETO: Ah, that is fascinating. For someone with this narrative it is not easy to start where you are at or recognize and admit where you have gone wrong. Knowing this about yourself makes recognizing ‘wrong turns’ easier – in fact, whenever you are stuck in feeling bad, you can deduce that you need to get back on the right track including questioning this particular narrative. This quote might also be helpful – victim mentality often comes in combination with “beliefs around being exceptional”.
ADAM-Cl: Pure intent is that agency and will to get back to feeling happy and harmless from remembering the PCE, I can see how diametrically opposed it is to passivity and resentment and how it can help me to get back to being sincere and trying to be happy and harmless. It has clicked in a way that it hasn’t before. I have read those descriptions on pure intent so many times as well. My brain really dismissed the agency aspect, as though pure intent can only happen spontaneously too not from actively remembering/ rememoration of my own PCE’s and willingly trying to do the method. VINEETO: A clarification – to “actively remembering/ rememoration of my own PCE’s” is done by ‘you’, the agency, pure intent is not an agency but exists outside of ‘you’ and an identity can never be pure intent. Apart from that, to actively remember/ rememorate your PCE’s with the sincere intent to imitate the actual as much and as often as possible is important because nothing will change unless you want to change. Imitating the actual was how Richard first developed and applied the actualism method –
In fact, this whole post to Claudiu gives an extensive description of the actualism method. ADAM-Cl: I had a realisation today of how I had imagined these successes and gains would be “mine”. Imaginary future outcomes are my specialty it seems. At least I am becoming aware of the pattern. VINEETO: Indeed, feeling being ‘Vineeto’ was surprised, once ‘she’ began paying fascinated attention to how ‘she’ experienced life each moment again, how much of what ‘she’ considered thinking was actually imagination and day-dreaming. This rapidly diminished the more ‘she’ discovered about ‘herself’. ADAM-Cl: I have been back to a very felicitous baseline today, thanks again. VINEETO: This is good to hear. Remember, the actualism method is to be enjoying and appreciating being alive.
VINEETO: A clarification – to “actively remembering/ rememoration of my own PCE’s” is done by ‘you’, the agency, pure intent is not an agency but exists outside of ‘you’ and an identity can never be pure intent. ADAM-Cl: Yes, apologies I didn’t word that too clearly but I understand and was trying to articulate that. I haven’t had a PCE since August 2007 and the first 6 were very short mostly below 2 minutes or even a minute, only the last one I had was a more significant time frame maybe 5 to 8 mins. I have had a lot of excellence experiences and even more felicitous moments, at least so it has not been a journey absent of progress. The first 6 PCEs I had occurred whilst actively carrying out the method, the last and longest was more different because it happened after working long hours to fix my brothers laptop and then walking to my actual job and it was a spontaneous event, I was thinking about a tech problem when it happened. I can only at best imitate the actual and have the sincere intent to be happy and harmless in this moment, however the act of the PCE is still somewhat spontaneous in occurrence, right? VINEETO: Hi Adam, Well, a PCE is not an “act”, a pure consciousness experience is an event, which you allow to happen. ‘You’ have no part in it except allowing to go into (temporary) abeyance –
This link might be informative – How Do I Induce a PCE? ADAM-Cl: Which my passive and resentful self has mistaken as being like there is nothing I can do to actualise it, so I turned into something to feel resentful about because I can’t do it, it is not within my specialness to be able to do. Which then becomes a form of self-criticism of uselessness too, if I was a better or more competent actualist this would have happened by now. I am really seeing the mess I have been in. VINEETO: After you recognized that source of “self-criticism” did you abandon your idea of “specialness” and its resultant resentment in order to better facilitate PCEs to occur? In other words, it’s all very well to virtuously demonstrate how aware you are by saying “I am really seeing the mess I have been in” – but have you actively done something about it by consciously (and thus permanently) abandoning such an attitude recognized as silly, or are you merely content castigating yourself while continuing remaining the same as before? I have deliberately phrased my question in this provocative way because you said that you “keep
circling back to is this passivity” – lacking “lack the will or intent to actualise things”. One of the most helpful tools for the actualism method is to be a friend to yourself (see Actualvineeto, Selected Correspondence, Being a Friend
* VINEETO: Apart from that, to actively remember/ rememorate your PCE’s with the sincere
intent to imitate the actual as much and as often as possible is important because nothing will
change unless you want to change. Imitating the actual was how Richard first developed and applied the actualism
method – (snipped quote ADAM-Cl: I have mentioned several times over the years since the zulip forum, I have always had this tendency to be in imagination more than the real world so like twice removed from actuality was my norm. It is so reflexive to start going to imagined scenarios about having a PCE or being virtually free or fully free without actually doing the actual method and the imitation of the actual. Even to the point of imagining paying attention to this moment and doing the method rather than actually doing the method, its so bizarre once you start to spot it in action. VINEETO: Ha, this really is the perfect description of day-dreaming arm-chair philosophy. ADAM-Cl: At least I am becoming aware of what I am doing and
taking steps to rectify. VINEETO: Ok, I am looking forward to learning of the rectifying steps you are taking, and if they have been successful. Hint – a silly habit can only be replaced by developing an alternative sensible habit, to wit, whole-heartedly saying !YES! to being here.
VINEETO: Hi Adam, Well, a PCE is not an “act”, a pure consciousness experience is an event, which you allow to happen. ‘You’ have no part in it except allowing to go into (temporary) abeyance – ADAM-Cl: Colloquially, we sometimes use act as a synonym for occurrence/event, apologies I didn’t realise that might be interpreted differently. In British English, the word act is often used as a noun to mean a specific instance, deed, or single occurrence. While not a direct synonym for “happening” in all contexts, it is commonly used to describe an event, particularly when that event is intentional, distinct, or a single component of a larger situation. (Cambridge Dictionary). VINEETO: Hi Adam, Actualism is not an exercise or exam using the correct words but gaining an experiential/ existential understanding that the PCE is an experience outside of one’s ‘self’, and allowing the actual world to become apparent via going into abeyance – The reason I emphasize this fact is because I noticed over the years that quite a few people are/were under the illusionary impression that if/when perfecting their ‘self’ they could then ‘slide’ into the actual world, which is impossible.
Here is a description how to bring this about –
ADAM-Cl: The allowing and going into abeyance is definitely the
trickier part for me to experientially understand and pinpoint what that looks like, if that makes sense. Not helped
by how few PCE’s I have had and how long since happening. Is the act of being sincere, naïve and happy and
harmless the very same allowance or does this indicate something else I might have misunderstood about the method? VINEETO: If by “act” you mean “a specific instance, deed, or single occurrence” – no. It is when “being sincere, naïve and happy and harmless” becomes a way of experiencing life, day after day, then magic can and will happen. Hence the actualism method is to be enjoying and appreciating being alive as much as possible.
Here is a further quote to explain how “‘I’ can never, ever become perfect” and how “the already always existing perfection can become apparent” –
As you can see, being kind to yourself is tantamount.
Freedom from the Human Condition – Happy and Harmless Vineeto’s & Richard’s Text ©The Actual
Freedom Trust: 1997-. All Rights Reserved.
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