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Richard’s Correspondence On Mailing List ‘D’ with Correspondent No. 37 (Please make sure java-scripting is enabled in order for the mouse-hover tool-tips to function properly; mouse-hover on the yellow rectangular image to enlarge; left-click on the image to hold).
(Editors Note: For a possible explanation see Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Richard you seem more like a [...]. To put your action in contrast with [...]. If what you [...]. If you are [...]. Anyone who thinks about so [...]. Those who are actually free either [...] or would [...]. RICHARD: G’day [...] (Sock Puppet ‘C’), Ha ... in with a vengeance, eh? (280-odd posts in around 16 days is equivalent to about 18 emails per day). Incidentally, the disinformation in your presumptive impertinencies (above) was snipped out for obvious reasons. For instance (although not entirely applicable): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrediting_tactics Regards, Richard. P.S.: Just for future reference: swanky screen names – such as Zero Infinity and El Dude for instance – which are reminiscent of those monikers left behind wherever fly-by-night graffiti scrawlers abound can have quite an ichthyoid odour (in view of the vital importance of the reason for the forum’s existence).
Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RICHARD: [...] Ha ... in with a vengeance, eh? (280-odd posts in around 16 days is equivalent to about 18 emails per day). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] [...] Did you reply to me out of vengeance? RICHARD: Nope ... I have only written 1 email to you/about you (as compared to your 280-odd). Vis.:
And, as this is only my 2nd one, I still have 278-odd to go before attaining to your degree. Regards, Richard.
Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] Anyone who is completely free from harm and malice won’t interpret messages such as mine to be a vengeful act. [...] RICHARD: I did not interpret your 280-odd posts, in around 16 days, as being [quote] ‘a vengeful act’ [endquote]. Vis.:
If anything, I would characterise them as being futile attempts to discredit what PCEs (pure consciousness experiences) so readily evidence. * RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] It is not a wonder that [...] even moving around the countryside is a chore for you. RICHARD: A chronic lower back displacement – first incurred at age 24 and acutely exacerbated by senescence’s stenosis is in no way related to being either actually free from malice and sorrow or not. Regards, Richard.
Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] Did you reply to me out of vengeance? RICHARD: Nope ... I have only written 1 email to you/about you (as compared to your 280-odd). Vis.: ‘with a vengeance: in an extreme degree’. (Oxford Dictionary). And, as this is only my 2nd one, I still have 278-odd to go before attaining to your degree. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I didn’t know that I wrote the 280 odd emails to you! RICHARD: As the above wording quite clearly is [quote] ‘to you/about you’ [endquote] then this is a classic case of frittering away yet another vital opportunity on immature retorts. * RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Are you experiencing an ASC? RICHARD: As that is an impossibility – only identities can have ASCs (and PCEs) – your stock-in-trade retort to others on this forum is but a waste of both the time tapping it out on the keyboard and the band-width used in sending it. Regards, Richard.
Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RICHARD: [...] Ha ... in with a vengeance, eh? (280-odd posts in around 16 days is equivalent to about 18 emails per day). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] [...] Did you reply to me out of vengeance? RICHARD: Nope ... I have only written 1 email to you/about you (as compared to your 280-odd). Vis.: ‘with a vengeance: in an extreme degree’. (Oxford Dictionary). And, as this is only my 2nd one, I still have 278-odd to go before attaining to your degree. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Do you have the habit of overlooking many points in favor of those you can answer thinking they can be helpful to you? RICHARD: As you only had two queries in that post Here is a clue for future reference:
It is your call. Regards, Richard.
Re: Hi Richard! – Part Three RICHARD: [...] Incidentally, the disinformation in your presumptive impertinencies (above) was snipped out for obvious reasons. For instance (although not entirely applicable): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrediting_tactics RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] Did my questions sound like bullets to you? RICHARD: Nope, they sound just like what they are ... to wit:
* RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Those were just words as are these! You need freedom from words first ... RICHARD: Ha ... if that were indeed the case there would be no need to react with retorts such as ‘hooked on to words’ and ‘which creates the illusion’ and ‘a kid who gets a kick out of’ and ‘fall into your trap’ and ‘dirt gained vitality’ and ‘out of vengeance’ and ‘be on the offensive’ and ‘call it vengeance’ and ‘interpret messages’ and ‘goes on to show’ and ‘offensive techniques’ and ‘a shadow of the past’ and ‘questions sound like bullets’ (just to pluck a few a random). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... afterwards we can talk about actual freedom :) RICHARD: By my count you have thus far frittered away 6 (six) vital opportunities on these incongruous reactions. Regards, Richard.
Re: Peculiar Information # 5 RESPONDENT No. 14: The first actualists praised the iniciative of scientists like LeDoux. Me too. Anyway, sometimes I compare the ‘Reactive Mind’ experiences of Mr Hubbard (read Dianetics) with the ‘modern’ scientific approach and they are both similares: all in search for our biological ‘self/Self’ to fix(?) it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_mind. And if you change ‘reactive mind’ by ‘human condition’, maybe Mr. Hubbard was a pioneer in this strange land inside our skulls... RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Hubbard was a science fiction author. [snip disinformation]. Nobody can claim to be a ‘pioneer’ in any field. All the ‘pioneers’ stand on the shoulder of giants. RESPONDENT No. 14: Of course ... RICHARD: G’day No. 14, Because you have, perhaps hastily, thereby endorsed a mere assertion that all pioneers are
nanos gigantum humeris insidentes In mid-1980 I had an indelibly-imprinted-in-memory pure consciousness experience (PCE), which lasted for four hours, during which the pristine perfection of the significance of life itself was openly apparent in all its immaculate purity. Plus, of course, an individual peace-on-earth, in this lifetime, as a flesh and blood body only. This four-hour PCE – in conjunction with many other thence-recalled similar perfection experiences stretching away back into my earliest childhood – is what initiated taking my first step on what is nowadays known as the wide and wondrous path to an actual freedom from the human condition. (And only upon taking that first step did the next step became obvious; whereupon taking that second step revealed the third ... and so on, and so on, right through unto the last step). I knew perfectly well that I was standing on no shoulders whatsoever – be they those of giants or otherwise – as that PCE indubitably informed that living such a condition was entirely new to human experience/ human history. Indeed, I would say to anyone prepared to listen to me, at the time, how everyone has got it 180 degrees wrong and that nobody has to physically die to be in paradise (inasmuch eternity does not cease at birth only to then recommence at death after a 70+ year interregnum). As all the above information, and more, is freely available on The Actual Freedom Trust web site there is no excuse for tamely acquiescing to any tendentious words to the contrary. Indeed, metaphysicist’s cherished giants (those many and various spiritually enlightened/mystically awakened ones) all had feet of clay. Had the venerated Mr. Gotama the Sakyan, for instance, gone all the way two and a half thousand years ago then peace-on-earth might very well have been a global occurrence by now. And that is quite something to bear in mind, eh? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Misinterpreting/ misrepresenting information won’t make it otherwise Richard. RICHARD: As the information I provided above is entirely accurate your unsubstantiated assertion is nothing but noise. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Hubbard was a science fiction writer who later developed Scientology which itself is mostly a work of fiction. RICHARD: As I never mentioned either Mr. L. Ron Hubbard or the Church of Scientology in my above response – that was a matter between you and your co-respondent – then your irrelevant comment is nothing but distractive noise. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): It is clear to anyone familiar with Buddhism that it is you who is trying to present things in a new way ... RICHARD: As I am not presenting Buddhism in a new way – it is a religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical way of deliverance from birth/ death through release from the bonds of tanha (the craving for earthly existence) and its resultant dukkha upon the realisation of, or the awakening to amata (deathless/ immortality) – then your ill-informed allegation is nothing but more noise. As the remainder of your post is also nothing but a whole lot of divertive noise – the topic at hand being your mere assertion that all pioneers stand on the shoulder of giants – there is simply no point in continuing this charade of a discussion. And yet another vital opportunity frittered away. Regards, Richard.
Re: Peculiar Information # 5 RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): It is clear to anyone familiar with Buddhism that it is you who is trying to present things in a new way ... RICHARD: As I am not presenting Buddhism in a new way – it is a religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical way of deliverance from birth/ death through release from the bonds of tanha (the craving for earthly existence) and its resultant dukkha upon the realisation of, or the awakening to amata (deathless/ immortality) – then your ill-informed allegation is nothing but more noise. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): It is you who doesn’t want to see beyond the as per your words: religio-spiritual/ mystico-metaphysical way of deliverance from birth/ death through release from the bonds of tanha (the craving for earthly existence) and its resultant dukkha upon the realisation of, or the awakening to amata (deathless/ immortality). But if you let yourself to see beyond that, you will see what you are presenting is nothing new but a subset of Buddhism. RICHARD: First of all, there is no necessity for me to merely see [quote] ‘beyond the’ [endquote] or [quote] ‘beyond that’ [endquote] as there is eleven years of experiential understanding – insider information (so to speak) – to inform what words such as tanha, dukkha and amata, in context, are pointing to. There is simply no way in which you could bend, twist, fold or staple anything which is at all buddhistic in order to render an actual freedom from the human condition into being a subset of Buddhism as it is impossible to deny how the central elements of its many and various sects are essentially identical. Take out those core elements and what remains is, put somewhat simplistically, a whole lot of ethical precepts. (Just as attempts to strip Christianity of its core elements has left it as being nothing but a collection of moralistic homilies). I am aware of a movement (mainly in the western world) to strip The Awakened One of his mysticism (as well as The Anointed One of his divinity) but a rotting carcass sans its skeleton is as if rubber duckies are being venerated as the ultimate source of the wisdom of the ages. Put succinctly: that boned corpse which you drag around, and limply prop up on forums such as this, may as well be a busty blow-up doll for all the use it currently provides. Regards, Richard.
Re: Peculiar Information # 5 RESPONDENT No. 4 to Respondent: [...] If you’re still open to suggestions: Many of us have had the same initial difficulties either with actualism itself, or with Richard’s highly irreverent and seemingly confrontational style, or both. It is very understandable that you react the way you do, and you are far from alone. But, after much thought, spanning many years, some of us have come to understand the reasons for this, and to see things very differently from our early reactions. It is not because we are brainwashed, or stupid, or have become proselytes or acolytes, but because the more deeply you look into actualism the more sense it makes ... and then Richard himself becomes less of an enigma. Virtually everyone will admit it isn’t easy ... there are so many things that seem glaringly wrong at first ... and it takes time to work through these. And I can vouch for the fact that it’s possible to waste ENORMOUS amounts of time on the kind of petty reactions and provocations you’re posting here. For that reason, I suggest (take it or leave it) that, if you stick around, raise your concerns, questions, objections ... there are people who can/will discuss them ... but be genuine, listen to and think about the responses for a while (without assuming that you already know it all in advance), and don’t waste your time on petty smart-ass retorts, because it really is a waste. (Again, just suggestions based on much experience...). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] I have gone over the description of PCE by different people and it doesn’t seem to me any different than what I get with meditation. RICHARD: Yet here is what you wrote in your 23rd post to this forum (in a total of 381 emails):
There is one thing you can now be sure of ... to wit: whatever it is you [quote] ‘get with meditation’ [endquote] it is not a pure consciousness experience (PCE). Regards, Richard.
Re: Peculiar Information # 5 RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] I have gone over the description of PCE by different people and it doesn’t seem to me any different than what I get with meditation. RICHARD: [...] There is one thing you can now be sure of ... to wit: what ever it is you [quote] ‘get with meditation’ [endquote] it is not a pure consciousness experience (PCE). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Let me rephrase: ‘post’ meditation experience is PCE. RICHARD: I am only too happy to rephrase my observation to accommodate your corrigendum. Vis.: There is one thing you can now be sure of ... to wit: whatever it is you [quote] ‘get with ‘post’ meditation experience’ [endquote] it is not a pure consciousness experience (PCE). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] I have gone over the description of PCE by different people and it doesn’t seem to me any different than what I get with meditation. RICHARD: Yet here is what you wrote in your 23rd post to this forum (in a total of 381 emails):
There is one thing you can now be sure of ... namely: whatever those experiences might have been they have not been PCE’s. Regards, Richard.
Re: Peculiar Information # 5 RICHARD: Yet here is what you wrote in your 23rd post to this forum (in a total of 381 emails):
There is one thing you can now be sure of ... namely: whatever those experiences might have been they have not been PCE’s. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I was trying to find out from an Actualist about his experience. RICHARD: Oh? Yet this is what you wrote 22 hours after asking that ‘zombie’ question of yours:
Regards, Richard.
Re: I am that RESPONDENT No. 4: Can you walk over to a mirror and look into it? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Yes. RESPONDENT No. 4: Well if the answer is yes, then that would be ASC. RICHARD: A clarification of your terminology will elucidate the ‘zombie’ issue of the other thread: going by your above response, then, where there be walking about (or, for that matter, even typing emails) it indicates to you that it be an ASC, right? In other words, the type of experience which you [quote] ‘get with meditation’ [endquote] is not something that can happen where there be walking about and/or typing emails, eh? Further to the point, this is what you have written previously:
And you have also written this:
If you could clarify just what [quote] ‘not having a functioning mind’ [endquote] means to you – and provide some indication via such terms as 6th jhana, 7th jhana and 8th jhana – it should further elucidate this ‘zombie’ issue. Regards, Richard.
Re: Debunking Buddhism and Neo-Buddhism RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] Though I feel that as long as there is consciousness, there will be self no matter how diminished it gets. RICHARD: As this sentence of yours has caught my attention I will refer you to the following:
Further to the point, this is what you have written previously:
And you have also written this:
If you could clarify just what [quote] ‘not having a functioning mind’ [endquote] means to you – and provide some indication via such terms as 6th jhana, 7th jhana and 8th jhana – it should further elucidate this ‘zombie’ issue. As you have now said that ‘as long as there is consciousness, there will be self no matter how diminished it gets’ it would be appreciated if you could see your way clear, this time around, to clarify just what [quote] ‘not having a functioning mind’ [endquote] means to you ... and preferably by providing some indication via such terms as 6th jhana, 7th jhana and 8th jhana. Regards, Richard. P.S.: Perhaps it might help for me to advise how there is an intimate knowing on my part – having insider information so to speak – as to the very nature of what the summum bonum of the buddhistic meditation practice is.
Re: Debunking Buddhism and Neo-Buddhism RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] Though I feel that as long as there is consciousness, there will be self no matter how diminished it gets. RICHARD: As this sentence of yours has caught my attention I will refer you to the following:
Further to the point, this is what you have written previously:
And you have also written this:
If you could clarify just what [quote] ‘not having a functioning mind’ [endquote] means to you – and provide some indication via such terms as 6th jhana, 7th jhana and 8th jhana – it should further elucidate this ‘zombie’ issue. As you have now said that ‘as long as there is consciousness, there will be self no matter how diminished it gets’ it would be appreciated if you could see your way clear, this time around, to clarify just what [quote] ‘not having a functioning mind’ [endquote] means to you ... and preferably by providing some indication via such terms as 6th jhana, 7th jhana and 8th jhana. P.S.: Perhaps it might help for me to advise how there is an intimate knowing on my part – having insider information so to speak – as to the very nature of what the summum bonum of the buddhistic meditation practice is. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Yes that is right that the type of experience you get with meditation is not something that can happen where there be walking about or in every day life. RICHARD: Thank you for affirming this as what it means, in effect, is that it cannot be the status quo of everyday life (as in living/ breathing, eating/ drinking, urinating/ defecating, walking/ talking, typing emails, and so on and so forth). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): The type of experience you get with meditation has a purpose and that is to get back to feeling felicitous after a hurricane has struck which you were unable to tackle in the moment of everyday life. It is to get to the eye of the hurricane and beyond that so that it settles down. RICHARD: Whereas the purpose of buddhistic meditation practice is outright dissociation (vippayutta RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ‘Zombie’ issue was raised by me to get the information from actualists as to the state of mind. Regarding the 6th, 7th and 8th jhana, that experience helps in tackling the highest strength hurricane that can ever strike oneself in life. It helps to tackle whatever it may be life throws at you. And further it helps you get back to your life after tackling whatever strength hurricane that might have struck you in the past. RICHARD: Whereas with buddhistic meditation practice the ultimate jhana is total dissociation (vippayutta RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): If someone just stays in a jhana or wants to remain there all the time, then he can be termed as a zombie ... RICHARD: The term catalepsy is more apt. Vis.:
RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... or who wants to be a zombie all the time. That person has misunderstood one stop on the way as the end. That person would be termed as not having functioning mind and stuck at a jhana as a zombie. RICHARD: Whereas with buddhistic meditation practice not having functioning mind (aka thoughtless) – along with being motorless (no motoric function), senseless (no sensation, insensate), affectless (no emotion/ passion), unconscious (devoid of consciousness) – is the summum bonum. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): There are examples of people doing samadhi suicide. You also mentioned earlier about withering away. Samadhi suicide would be an example of it. There are specific instructions to not let that happen but they can be overlooked by some because of the blissfulness of the experience. RICHARD: Thank you for confirming that not only do you not know what a PCE is (in actualism terminology) you do not know what the summum bonum of the buddhistic meditation practice is either. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I guess this is what happened with you also. RICHARD: No, what happened on quite a few occasions during the eleven years of spiritual enlightenment/ mystical awakenment was the very same summum bonum of the buddhistic meditation practice ... to wit:
The first time such catalepsy occurred my then-wife panicked and called an ambulance to take me to an intensive care unit at the nearest hospital; after being examined by the resident doctor for all vital signs then all the whilst that state persisted a duty nurse would test for consciousness (holding open eyelids and shining an intense light for signs of pupil contraction, pinching an earlobe as tightly as possible for any sign of sensation, and so on) every 15 minutes to no avail. (Upon eventually coming out of that state so much bliss was radiating, spilling over into the ICU, that she became overwhelmed, in awe, with ruddy features and shining eyes testifying to her absorption into such an awesomely manifest presence). One other instance (too many to relate) occurred when sitting cross-legged upon a hillside overlooking the valley below and across to the mountain range opposite; there was incredible blissfulness just prior to that ultimate state – roiling waves of almost indescribable bliss – and ecstatic bliss immediately after yet for the event itself there was nothing, zero, zilch (hence ‘ineffable’, ‘unspeakable’, and so on) as the ultimate, the supreme by whatever name, is truly void. (The reason why I have singled-out that event (in 1985) from all the others is that, being born and raised on a remote farm in the forties and fifties telling the time by the sun was second nature; it was about 8:00 AM according to its position upon commencement and about 2:00 PM upon completion; the very fact the sun still traversed the sky all the while timelessness was the reality was the thin edge of the wedge eventually cracking open and exposing the solipsistic lie which enlightenment/ awakenment indubitably is). * As it is now patently obvious you know not of what you speak I have no further questions. Thank you for your frank response. Regards Richard.
Re: Debunking Buddhism and Neo-Buddhism RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] The type of experience you get with meditation has a purpose and that is to get back to feeling felicitous after a hurricane has struck which you were unable to tackle in the moment of everyday life. It is to get to the eye of the hurricane and beyond that so that it settles down. RICHARD: Whereas the purpose of buddhistic meditation practice is outright dissociation (vippayutta RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): That is what your understanding and is different from mine. RICHARD: I simply copy-pasted those terms from a Buddhist Sutra (an English translation) entitled ‘Bahuna Sutta To Bahuna’. It is categorised as ‘AN 10.81; PTS: AN v.151’. Which means it is Mr. Gotama the Sakyan’s understanding (to use your phraseology) and, as you say, is different from yours. There is no prize for guessing just whose understanding (to use your phraseology) would be considered bona fide by Buddhists over the last two millennia. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Ok, catalepsy would be true in your case because you ended up in trance state. RICHARD: As is true in Mr. Gotama the Sakyan’s case (and is also true in Mr. Venkataraman Aiyer’s (aka Ramana’s) case, in his early years, as well as is true in Mr. Gadadhar Chattopadhyay’s (aka Ramakrishna’s) case, to name but two well-known non-buddhistic personages). The word nirodh (cessation) can be a key to comprehension. For instance:
Here is a rather simplistic depiction (right at the bottom of the page): www.touchtheearthranch.com/thepaths.htm You could, of course, avail yourself of what is freely available on The Actual Freedom Trust web site (where all this has
already been discussed). For instance: RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] I approach meditation as a help to shine bright light of awareness/ attention nothing more than that. You had a different approach to it. RICHARD: I have never, ever meditated. Vis.:
RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I have tried HAIETMOBA like techniques as per cognitive therapy ... RICHARD: There is nothing remotely like the actualism method in the type of psychotherapy known as ‘Cognitive Therapy’ (CT). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... and they don’t work half as well as the attention I can get with meditation (my definition of it may not be the same as yours). RICHARD: As you have now strayed right off-topic into comparing a particular form of psychotherapy with whatever it is you call meditation – along with a transparently ignorant attempt to link the actualism method on to its coat-tails – it is obviously the end of focussed discussion. Speaking of straying off-topic (as is your wont) here are a couple of words you may find useful in that regard:
Regards, Richard.
Re: It is impossible to locate and destroy ‘I’ RESPONDENT No. 11: Suppose I feel bad for some reason. Isn’t the traditional way to fix the situation as opposed to seeing how silly it is? RICHARD: The traditional way may take many forms (such as philosophising, psychologising, analysing, for instance) but never something so simple as seeing how silly it is, as opposed to sensible, to spend the only moment of ever actually being alive – this moment – feeling miserable or malicious (or antidotally loving and compassionate) when it is so easy to be happy and harmless. The past, although it was actual whilst it was happening, is not actual now; the future, although it will be actual when it is happening, is not actual now; only this moment is actual. The exquisite attention engendered, by the exclusive focus upon how this moment is being experienced, will reveal via felicitous/ innocuous and thus naïve sensuosity that this moment has no duration in actuality – it is never not this moment – which means that time, being thus eternal, does not move. There is a vast stillness here in this actual world (the sensate world). RESPONDENT No. 11: How does the mere seeing how silly it is make us happy once again? RICHARD: Because nothing, absolutely nothing, is worth getting malicious or miserable about (let alone compensatingly loving and compassionate) when the realisation that this moment is the only one there ever is becomes the actuality it already always is. To explain: just as space is an arena for objects to exist in so too is time an arena (so to speak) for events to occur; just as the arena called space does not move neither does the arena (so too speak) called time move, either. A clock (originally a primitive sundial) measures the rate of rotation of planet earth on its axis; a calendar measures the rate of its orbit around its star (the sun); neither is a measure of time as time eternally stands still. Is it not silly to be malicious/ miserable (or counter-actively loving/ compassionate) where felicity/ innocuity is eternally available? Is it not sensible to be felicitous/innocuous instead? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ‘The now’ of Buddhism is ‘this moment’ of Actualism. RICHARD: No, the ‘now’ of spirituality, being metaphysical, is a timeless now (‘timeless’ as in no time just as ‘penniless’ means no pennies). For an identity asking how they are experiencing this moment of being alive the words ‘this moment’ refer to each and every fleeting instant between their previous (fleeting) moments and their future (fleeting) moments ... what can be called ‘real world’ time (the world of the psyche) for convenience. For an identity time moves (as in ‘the moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on’ For a flesh and blood body only (sans identity in toto/ the entire affective faculty) there is no movement of time – time stands eternally still in actuality – so the words ‘this moment’ refer to the events immediately happening, all objects currently existing, peoples presently alive and so on and so forth. In other words, just like space, time is actual. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ‘This moment’ is also 180 degree opposite to ‘the now’. RICHARD: As this moment is physical, whereas the metaphysical ‘now’ is not, it is indeed to be going 180 degrees in the opposite direction from actuality to enter into the (timeless) ‘now’ of scriptural lore and injunction. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I didn’t know that Richard is a pioneer of ‘this moment’ too. This is a revelation to me. RICHARD: ‘Tis never too late to discover how the words issuing forth from this keyboard do indeed convey something
new after all ... so what if it has taken you 491 emails, over 41 days (about 12 emails per day), to arrive at this point as it is the revelation
which is important and not the adversity expended Regards, Richard.
Re: It is impossible to locate and destroy ‘I’ RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ‘This moment’ is also 180 degree opposite to ‘the now’. RICHARD: As this moment is physical, whereas the metaphysical ‘now’ is not, it is indeed to be going 180 degrees in the opposite direction from actuality to enter into the (timeless) ‘now’ of scriptural lore and injunction. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I didn’t know that Richard is a pioneer of ‘this moment’ too. This is a revelation to me. RICHARD: ‘Tis never too late to discover how the words issuing forth from this keyboard do indeed convey something new after all ... so what if it has taken you 491 emails, over 41 days (about 12 emails per day), to arrive at this point as it is the revelation which is important and not the adversity expended. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): No matter how hard you try to describe the difference between metaphysical and actual, people who tend to go towards metaphysical will never go for actual. RICHARD: First of all, it is not hard for me to describe the difference – it is dead easy – and neither is it a case of trying to, either, as each description succeeds admirably. As more than just a few persons in alignment to what is actual, as contrasted to those opposed to it, are ex-spiritualists your blanket assertion to the contrary has no substance. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): And people who never go towards metaphysical, no matter what is told to them about it will never go towards that. Latter is the case with me, no one can make this donkey to drink the metaphysical water. RICHARD: As you already have drunk deeply of that water – the words of Mr. Terence Gray for just one instance RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): The metaphysical ‘now’ (for you, not for me) will always register as actual ‘this moment’ (no matter in what context I am reading it, manure will smell as good as rose). RICHARD: Hmm ... the manure which has registered as being ‘this moment’ in actuality for you, going solely by the following posts for example, speaks volumes about the inefficacy of your olfactory abilities: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7155,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7161, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7171,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7194, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7383,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7405, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7408,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7409, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7419,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7440, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7483,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7458 * Also, just so there is no misunderstanding, here is what one dictionary has to say:
Regards, Richard.
Re: It is impossible to locate and destroy ‘I’ RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I didn’t know that Richard is a pioneer of ‘this moment’ too. This is a revelation to me. RICHARD: ‘Tis never too late to discover how the words issuing forth from this keyboard do indeed convey something new after all ... so what if it has taken you 491 emails, over 41 days (about 12 emails per day), to arrive at this point as it is the revelation which is important and not the adversity expended. RESPONDENT: No matter how hard you try to describe the difference between metaphysical and actual, people who tend to go towards metaphysical will never go for actual. RICHARD: First of all, it is not hard for me to describe the difference – it is dead easy – and neither is it a case of trying to, either, as each description succeeds admirably. As more than just a few persons in alignment to what is actual, as contrasted to those opposed to it, are ex-spiritualists your blanket assertion to the contrary has no substance. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): And people who never go towards metaphysical, no matter what is told to them about it will never go towards that. Latter is the case with me, no one can make this donkey to drink the metaphysical water. RICHARD: As you already have drunk deeply of that water – the words of Mr. Terence Gray for just one instance RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): The metaphysical ‘now’ (for you, not for me) will always register as actual ‘this moment’ (no matter in what context I am reading it, manure will smell as good as rose). RICHARD: Hmm ... the manure which has registered as being ‘this moment’ in actuality for you, going solely by the following posts for example, speaks volumes about the inefficacy of your olfactory abilities: [snip links] Also, just so there is no misunderstanding, here is what one dictionary has to say:
RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): It is the same people who you talk of being ex-spiritualists that will turn what No. 14 mentions as risk into actuality. It won’t happen to No. 14 or myself. I am able to tap into the ‘remarkable’ ability and ‘step aside’. RICHARD: The topic under discussion is time: specifically, this moment as experienced by normal peoples (a fleeting instant sandwiched between previous fleeting moments and future fleeting moments); and this moment as experienced by spiritually enlightened/ mystically awakened peoples (a timeless ‘now’ or ‘present’ in an immaterial realm); plus this moment as experienced in actuality (where time stands eternally still). If you do not want to discuss it – to further explore the revelation you said you had 55 minutes previously – then please say so up-front instead of veering off-topic like this. Or, even simpler, do not respond at all. Regards, Richard. ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• P.S.: Those same people I talk of being ex-spiritualists are the ones who experientially understand the difference between a PCE and an ASC (and an EE vis-a-vis an ASC as well). •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Walking Meditation viv-a-vis The Affections RICHARD: The main point of this particular email exchange of mine was to explicate how meditative practices do not
result in a state sans the affections which can be lived in everyday life (as in living/ breathing, eating/ drinking, urinating/ defecating,
walking/ talking, typing emails, and so on and so forth) as the affective faculty remains in situ – albeit somewhat rarefied – in nibbana RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Regarding meditative practices not resulting in a state sans the affections which can be lived in everyday life, one is not supposed to be doing sitting meditation only. One does walking meditation also so as to bring the meditation into everyday life (as in living/breathing, eating/ drinking, urinating/ defecating, walking/ talking, typing emails, and so on and so forth). Though it is not easy to bring that into everyday life easily ... RICHARD: I have cut your email short at this point as you chose to go on with yet another one of your by-now typical sprays about actualism, actualists and that phantom persona whom you feel, and thus think, must be directing this flesh and blood body to type these words. (Incidentally, none of your cheap shots ever hit me because that phantom you are aiming them at has no existence outside of your psyche; all you do is continue to make an even greater fool of yourself in public by your persistence in doing so). The email which you isolated the above paragraph of mine out of, plus the others on that particular theme, clearly explicate not only how the affective faculty remains in situ upon spiritual enlightenment/ mystical awakenment but how the only way it ever becomes inoperative, then, is upon the cessation of consciousness (along with mobility, sensation and thought) itself. As my co-respondent, in that exchange which you isolated the above paragraph of mine out of, has not only confirmed how the
affective faculty remains in situ but that a PCE (in actualism terminology) is not one iota short of that of cessation, you are obviously way, way
out of your depth as your [quote] ‘walking meditation’ [endquote] requires consciousness for that mobility to take place Put graphically: you are out and about playing with the big girls and boys, now, and you do really need to know your stuff in order to meaningfully join in the conversations at the deep end of the pool. What I would suggest is that you stop thrashing and splashing about – flailing and railing to no effect whatsoever – and head back to the shallow end where you can put your feet down, get something solid to stand on, take a deep breath, and have a good look around before reaching out for your keyboard once more. ‘Tis only a suggestion, of course, as it is entirely your prerogative to continue making a public spectacle of yourself Others before you have tried, and failed, again and again. Being actual it is here to stay * It is utterly weird, to the point of being totally bizarre, that actual happiness and harmlessness – peace-on-earth in this
lifetime – being made public knowledge would attract such an adversarial attitude Regards, Richard.
Re: Third ‘wife’ RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I had posted earlier that for someone who doesn’t have meditation background, it will be very hard to follow Actualism. RESPONDENT No. 11: I see what you mean. RICHARD: [...] Now, as I am the only person thus far to have obtained the full benefit of the actualism method then how do you equate that with what you replied ‘I see what you mean’ to? Furthermore, do you now comprehend how such discrediting tactics work? More to the point, however, are you aware of just what type of meditation it is which your co-respondent is promoting? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You could have waited a while as I did suggest a book little later regarding the type of meditation. RICHARD: Oh? That post of yours at the top of this email, which your co-respondent replied ‘I see what you mean’ to, is Message No. 7865. This post of yours, which I am responding to, is Message No. 7896. Thus there are 30 posts in between and 12 of those 30 posts are from you. Vis.: 01. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7866 02. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7869 03. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7870 04. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7873 05. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7877 06. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7878 07. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7881 08. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7882 09. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7883 10. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7885 11. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7892 12. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/messages/7893 The only post amongst those twelve in which you suggest a book is Message No. 7866. As that is the very same book I then used, immediately after those three questions of mine above, so as to make clear just what type of meditation it was which you were promoting (complete with referenced by page-number quotes from the author) it just does not make sense for you to now say I could have waited a while because you had suggested a book, a little later, regarding the type of meditation. Therefore, if you could point to just which post it was, in which the book is to be found that you say I could have waited a while for, it would be most appreciated as I have been unable to locate it so far. * RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): [...] I would suggest that you read this book ‘Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation in Everyday Life’ by Jon Kabat-Zinn. RESPONDENT No. 11: Thanks for that link to the book. I’ll be sure to check it out. RICHARD: Not surprisingly, that book fits into the self-help/ personal growth genre (the province of pop-psychology or pop-therapy) and, having been around since 1993, has many online reviews. As one such review begins with ‘I read this book after listening to Jon Kabat-Zinn on Oprah’s radio program ...’ I wonder if you are familiar with the term ‘The Oprahfication of America’ (as in the ‘no-fault moral universe of non-judgmentalism’)? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): There are reviews about Actualism also that are not all positive. RICHARD: Ha ... it is quite telling how you would jump to the conclusion that the review was not positive just because of where the reviewer heard about the book from. Here it is again with the two sentences which followed:
Your next assertion is, of course, a non-sequitur RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Your are picking and choosing what serves your purpose ... RICHARD: I am doing no such thing (I was expressively illustrating how that book fits into the self-help/ personal growth genre – the province of pop-psychology or pop-therapy – by the very fact its author chose to promote it on a programme such as that. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... as you always do. Nothing new about this behavior of yours. RICHARD: Hmm ... given the amount of times you shoot yourself in the foot it is a wonder you have any left. * RICHARD: For instance, an editorial review depicts the book as being about ‘... living fully in the present, observing ourselves, our feeling, others and our surroundings without judging them’. Indeed, on page 88 Mr. Jon Kabat-Zinn writes: ‘Meditation is a Way of being, a Way of living, a Way of listening, a Way of walking along the path of life and being in harmony with things as they are’. (As ‘things as they are’ of course includes wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide the lie of being non-judgmental is readily exposed for those with the eyes to see). So, how is one to achieve this sleight-of-hand? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You also do the sleight-of-hand in your Actualism. RICHARD: I do no such thing (nowhere do I talk of actualism as a way of being in harmony with wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): How is one supposed to bring peace on to earth with Actualism ... RICHARD: No one is supposed to [quote] ‘bring peace on to earth’ [endquote] with actualism. (The actualism method is a way of enabling the already existing peace-on-earth to be apparent). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... when it is only oneself that one should be concerned about? RICHARD: As it is only ‘oneself’ who is standing in the way of the already existing peace-on-earth being apparent it is patently obvious that it be ‘oneself’ whom ‘oneself’ should be concerned about. (Unless, of course, you have a fool-proof way of surgically excising the 6.5 billion identities who are currently holding the 6.5 billion human bodies, on this otherwise paradise earth, in thralldom). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Watch Doing time, doing Vipassana to see the effects on hard-core criminals as to how it brings about peace. [snip link]. You may also watch ‘Dhamma Brothers’ which shows that Vipassana works in American prisons too. RICHARD: ‘Tis fascinating to observe how you want me to see the effects of Vipassana on people who wrought that very sleight-of-hand by going within to find their ‘soul path, a path with heart’ (page xvi). Or, even more to the point, by them ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ (page 96) so as to ‘come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding and wisdom’. (page 96). * RICHARD: Simple: retreat from it all by going within to find your ‘soul path, a path with heart’. (page xvi). Or, even more to the point, on page 96 he says ‘Dwelling inwardly for extended periods, we come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding, and wisdom’. In regards to the ever-present problem of promoting a buddhistic mindfulness ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ practice in a non-spiritual/ non-mystical way another editorial review says ‘The idea that meditation is ‘spiritual’ is often confusing to people, Kabat-Zinn writes; he prefers to think of it as what you might call a workout for your consciousness’. Regarding this ‘workout for your consciousness’ a customer reviewer writes ‘I read a lot of books on meditation, yoga, and buddhism, and this book doesn’t hold up to any of them’. Another one says ‘... because I have some familiarity with eastern thought I really didn’t connect with much in this book’. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I have already said that there is nothing spiritual about meditation that I do. RICHARD: As Mr. Jon Kabat-Zinn did not write that there is [quote] ‘nothing spiritual about meditation’ [endquote] it matters not what you have already said as, according to the editorial review quoted above, what he wrote was that, as the idea that meditation is ‘spiritual’ is often confusing to people, he prefers to think of it as [quote] ‘what you might call a workout for your consciousness’ [endquote] instead. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): That is why I suggested this book. RICHARD: Hmm ... as the subtleties of such devious thinking (thinking of a spiritual meditation as being, instead, a workout for consciousness) have eluded you it will be to your advantage to become cognisant of the fact that preferring to think about the colour black (for instance) as being white does not alter the facticity of the colour black being black in colour. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): In the above paragraph, you have pasted a reviewers comment saying that he didn’t connect with what is said in the book with eastern thought and then later on in the paragraph below you are saying that a dilettante (while referring to me) ... RICHARD: As I was clearly referring to Mr. Jon Kabat-Zinn, in particular, and to peoples such as Ms Oprah Winfrey and her ilk, in general, it is edifying to see what type of peoples it is whom you identify with and/or relate to. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... is trying to spread the ‘sickness’ of the east. RICHARD: By the word ‘sickness’ I am referring to the practice of dealing with all the wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide by (quote) ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ (page 96) so as to [quote] ‘come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding and wisdom’. (page 96) RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Are you attentive enough? RICHARD: Indeed so (as demonstrated by all the above referenced by page-number quotes as textual evidence of my explication) ... the question is: are you? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You have made even greater fool of yourself this time around. RICHARD: As I go by what Mr. Jon Kabat-Zinn writes (rather than by your assertions) it is patently obvious that it is you who has made an even greater fool of yourself this time around. * RICHARD: I could go on, and on, but I will leave you with what Mr. Jon Kabat-Zinn has to say on that topic instead: on page 264 he opines that ‘meditation can be a profound path for developing oneself, for refining one’s perceptions, one’s views, one’s consciousness, but, to my mind, the vocabulary of spirituality creates more practical problems than it solves’. And thus do the dilettantes spread the sickness of the east. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Are you trying to prevent someone from trying out meditation ... RICHARD: No, not at all. What I am doing (not just ‘trying’ to do) is to explicate how dealing with all the wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide by [quote] ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ (page 96) so as to [quote] ‘come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding and wisdom’ (page 96) is not ever going to enable the already always existing peace-on-earth to be apparent. (Which already always existing peace-on-earth being made apparent is what this discussion forum was set-up to discuss). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... for whom Actualism hasn’t worked? RICHARD: The person to whom you are referring has yet to put the actualism method into practice (as evidenced by all my
emails to him, suggesting that he do so, to the point of me thus being called a copulating female dog). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Don’t you want that person to benefit with something else that might work for him? RICHARD: As dealing with all the wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide by [quote] ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ (page 96) so as to [quote] ‘come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding and wisdom’ (page 96) is not ever going to enable the already always existing peace-on-earth to be apparent I would be doing my fellow human being no favour were I not point that fact out. (What the other does with that pointing out is, of course, entirely their business as it is their life they are living and not mine). RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Try to keep your ‘pioneer’ dilettante within limits so as try not to stop others from doing meditation which will help them. RICHARD: As that cheap shot of yours is aimed at a phantom identity (which you feel and thus think must be directing this flesh and blood body to type these words), who exists only in your psyche, all you are doing is continuing to make an even greater fool of yourself in public by your continued persistence in shooting them off into the abyss. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): When meditation will help the person for whom Actualism didn’t work ... RICHARD: Again, the person to whom you are referring RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... it will show which is more efficacious. RICHARD: As dealing with all the wars, murders, rapes, tortures, domestic violence, child abuse, sadness, loneliness, grief, depression and suicide by [quote] ‘dwelling inwardly for extended periods’ (page 96) so as to [quote] ‘come to know something of the poverty of always looking outside ourselves for happiness, understanding and wisdom’ (page 96) is not ever going to enable the already always existing peace-on-earth to be apparent there is no need whatsoever to set-up such a ineffective comparison work-out as you propose. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): Seeing that happen as a possibility, you have posted the next post of yours trying to hit me. RICHARD: Ha ... here is a ‘word of the day’ for you:
RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): I’m not scared ... RICHARD: Oh? A re-read of what you wrote recently is in order:
And this one as well:
Plus this one:
As well as this one:
And, of course, this one:
To tell me [quote] ‘I’m not scared ...’ [endquote] is so silly as to be bordering on the ridiculous. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... like you as to not be able to get out in public with what my opinions are. RICHARD: Oh? Where, then, is your website? Where are the discussion forums, set-up by others, solely to discuss your words and writings? Where is your book available from? Where can your video DVD’s be previewed? Whom have you publicly invited, as on this very forum, to have a face-to-face meeting with for an easy chat? RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You are chicken when it comes to go out in public with your claims. RICHARD: That is so silly as to not even be worthy of a comment. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): That is why you think that when you show your adversarial attitude ... RICHARD: ‘Twas you who showed your adversarial attitude. Vis.:
RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): ... you will be able to desist me. RICHARD: I do not want to [quote] ‘desist’ [endquote] you but engage you in a sensible, rational, judicious and practical discussion. As a fellow human being I would be doing you no favour were I to just dumbly acquiesce to all the stuff you make up about me – lies as in porkies – plus about actualism and actualists without so much as a single word in response. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You are a fool yourself when trying to portray others as fools. RICHARD: Using the petty schoolboy trick of firing the other’s own words back – in lieu of a reasoned discussion – is as puerile as those schoolyard taunts of pusillanimity. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): In fact, you are a ‘pioneer’ fool. RICHARD: Just for the record: I cannot help but notice just how shallow it is down here at your end of the pool. Regards, Richard.
Re: Richard the Guru. RESPONDENT No. 5 (Sockpuppet E): Alright! seems like plans afoot to create an ashram. RESPONDENT (Sock Puppet ‘I’): You are right, one disciple is ready too. Even Osho didn’t start proclaiming himself to be ‘Bhagwaan’ right away. Richard has started taking baby steps towards Guru-ship. Though he won’t present it in that way, he will present it as 180 degree opposite. RICHARD: Ha ... the spinner spins Regards, Richard.
RETURN TO MAILING LIST ‘D’ INDEX The Third Alternative (Peace On Earth In This Life Time As This Flesh And Blood Body) Here is an actual freedom from the Human Condition, surpassing Spiritual Enlightenment and any other Altered State Of Consciousness, and challenging all philosophy, psychiatry, metaphysics (including quantum physics with its mystic cosmogony), anthropology, sociology ... and any religion along with its paranormal theology. Discarding all of the beliefs that have held humankind in thralldom for aeons, the way has now been discovered that cuts through the ‘Tried and True’ and enables anyone to be, for the first time, a fully free and autonomous individual living in utter peace and tranquillity, beholden to no-one.
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