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Vineeto’s Correspondence on the Actual Freedom List Correspondent No 23
To No 16: As I already pointed out to No 71 you conveniently omitted my qualifier in the first part of my post in order to mount your objection – Just like as in the case that perhaps you have ‘conveniently’ avoided to respond on my request for clarification. Vis:
thus It seems to be fair to presume, that neither your’s nor Ms I’s indeed a truthful/ accurate/ factual account of what actually happened. So… could you in your own words, describe what actually happened at that mentioned event? (Original Message Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: Re: No 23 re: The Human Condition)This was your original question –
I did not answer because there is just no way by me telling you that seven people met on that afternoon and had a lively conversation about an actual freedom from the human condition you can figure out whose account was the ‘truthful/ accurate/ factual’ one. Besides, you have already made clear that you have up your mind –
During my process of actualism there was a time when I watched the biography of many people who made it to being famous enough to have a biography report made about them. I wanted to find out what exactly it is that made people successful in what they wanted to achieve in life, be it a gold medal in an Olympic sport or the winner of the Tour de France, be it a successful business entrepreneur or a famous dancer or painter, be it a well-known architect or a renowned author or inventor or, in the spiritual realm of achievements, become an enlightened master. What all these people had in common was a burning passion to be successful at their chosen field of interest and an unwavering determination to do whatever it takes to reach their goal. This shows that likely you have not (yet) understood what a spiritual master is. I take it then that you have not read Mohan Rajneesh’s autobiography ‘The Golden Childhood’ or any other autobiography or biography from a genuine enlightened person? They all describe, without exception, that they were pursuing enlightenment like all get-out for many years with a strict regiment of mediation, fasting, yoga and other spiritual disciplines and then, when after years of arduous practice they exhaustedly relaxed and gave up control enlightenment happened. Face it, No 23, there is no such thing as a free lunch – not even enlightenment happens on its own accord – you’d have to work really, really hard if you wanted to achieve it.
(…) To frankly let you know where i come from just hypotheticly speaking, if somebody were to bring forward ‘rock solid evidence’, that reincarnation is a fact and not a thought merely based on wishfull thinking, would you then drop your effort to extirpicate your soul? Ha, you might as well ask me which corner I would choose if the earth was a cube instead of a globe. Reincarnation can never be a fact. Let me explain – since everyone can experience in a PCE that the ‘self’/soul can disappear and since Richard has proven that the ‘self’/soul can become permanently extinct whilst the physical body is still alive, how anyone can construe that this soul survives physical death is simply risible.
Regardless though most of us know that the boat is leaking and that the captain lied. If, as you say, the boat is leaking then why aren’t the rats leaving the sinking ship. Not even the mutineers, after plenty of powwow and chest beating, were willing to go sailing on their own boat. And since we are in metaphor-land – the grapes aren’t sour, they just hanging a bit high.
(…) To frankly let you know where I come from just hypothetically speaking, if somebody were to bring forward ‘rock solid evidence’, that reincarnation is a fact and not a thought merely based on wishful thinking, would you then drop your effort to extirpate your soul? Ha, you might as well ask me which corner I would choose if the earth was a cube instead of a globe. Reincarnation can never be a fact. Let me explain – since everyone can experience in a PCE that the ‘self’/soul can disappear and since Richard has proven that the ‘self’/soul can become permanently extinct whilst the physical body is still alive, how anyone can construe that this soul survives physical death is simply risible. If you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with your bullshit. eh. Na, dazzling with bullshit is definitely your department. Apart from the long piece of miasma that Richard recently quoted, look at this recent work of art … it had me rolling on the floor with laughter –
[Can reincarnation be a fact?] No. The soul that is supposed to reincarnate is non-actual. But by all means, do not take my word for it. There is plenty of material on the AF website for you to inform yourself. Just type ‘life after death site:www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard’ and you should get about 365 hits.
During my process of actualism there was a time when I watched the biography of many people who made it to being famous enough to have a biography report made about them. I wanted to find out what exactly it is that made people successful in what they wanted to achieve in life, be it a gold medal in an Olympic sport or the winner of the Tour de France, be it a successful business entrepreneur or a famous dancer or painter, be it a well-known architect or a renowned author or inventor or, in the spiritual realm of achievements, become an enlightened master. What all these people had in common was a burning passion to be successful at their chosen field of interest and an unwavering determination to do whatever it takes to reach their goal. This shows that likely you have not (yet) understood what a spiritual master is. I take it then that you have not read Mohan Rajneesh’s autobiography ‘The Golden Childhood’ or any other autobiography or biography from a genuine enlightened person? They all describe, without exception that they were pursuing enlightenment like all get-out for many years with a strict discipline of mediation, fasting, yoga and other spiritual disciplines and then, when after years of arduous practice they exhaustedly relaxed and gave up control enlightenment happened. Face it, Johan, there is no such thing as a free lunch – not even enlightenment happens on its own accord – you’ll have to work really, really hard for it. (…) [This shows that likely you have not (yet) understood what a spiritual master is.] I hereby state that indeed I have no knowledge of the content of this particular spiritual document (‘Mohan Rajneesh’s autobiography ‘The Golden Childhood’) so in that her assumption was correct. However the other assumptions propelled and amplified by sweeping generalizations [or any other autobiography or biography from a genuine enlightened person?] may or may not be correct as I do not know what a genuine enlightened person is. Dear me, do you actually read what you write?
If you can’t tell a genuine enlightened master from a wannabe, then the understanding of what a spiritual master is is therefore equally unknown to you.
Footnote: 1) To Richard – Hopefully you’ll
understand that your’s truly is not setting the stage for yet another lets-see-if-we-can-nail-Richard-or-give him-a
beat-up-game, but rather I’m looking for new ways to explore this medium as way to have a nice fellow-being-cyber-
tête-à-tête, as an alternative for i.e. having a talk while each one is blowing the steam of a cappuccino or enjoying
a straight espresso each one of course paying for his own consumption. R:amagdylada,
22.1.2005 Vineeto’s Text © The Actual Freedom Trust |
